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First off, for those who don't know, a brief history of Altansar:
Altansar was lost in the warp shortly after The Fall; the only Eldar to make it out alive was Maugan Ra. The morbid theme of the dark reapers is an expression of his loss (Emo boy). During the EoT campaign, Ra entered the Eye in search of Altansar. He returned 'successful', however, most Eldar treat the Altansar with open suspicion, reasoning that no one can spend such an extended period of time within the EoT without being altered. Their claims are not unjustified, it is rumored that the apparitions of dead warriors fight alongside the Altansar.

My force is representing Altansar as they emerged from the EoT.
I've used the following guidelines to create my image of Altansar.
1)The only aspect warriors alowed are Dire Avengers, Banshees, and Fire Dragons. These where the first aspect warriors conceived, so they're probably the only ones present on Altansar. At any rate, definitely no spiders or shining spears.
2)Thats right, no Dark Reapers. Maugan Ra founded them after Altansar was lost. It is possible he brought some Dark Reapers along with him into the EoT, but I don't like their rules, so poo on that.
3)No rangers. It's a little difficult to go wandering in the EoT
4)An abundance of psykers. If Ulthwe has powerful psykers for mere proximity, just imagine what these guys are capable of.
5)An abundance of guardians and wraith units. The fighting population is probably way down.

I use a counts as in the form of storm guardians converted to be floating and going through jutting rocks and painted ghost-like (these are the apparitions) as harlequins. Think of them as wraithguard without the shell. A warlock counts as the shadowseer. When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. They ignore terrain, They can pass through armor. They're hard to see. They're invulnerable. The only thing that doesn't totally work is the shuriken pistols. I'll try to get some pictures up, but I'll need to get a digicam. I also use a converted bone singer as Eldrad.


Eldrad- 210

Maugan Ra- 195

Harlequins- 162
1 Shadowseer with harlequin’s kiss
5 Harlequins with harlequin’s kisses

Harlequins- 162
1 Shadowseer with harlequin’s kiss
5 Harlequins with harlequin’s kisses

Fire Dragons- 112
5 Fire Dragons
1 Exarch with dragon’s breath flamer and crack shot

Guardian Jetbikes- 134
1 Warlock with singing spear and destructor
1 Jetbike with shuriken cannon
2 Jetbikes

Dire Avengers -120
10 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent- 155
-twin scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, vectored engines, spirit stones

Vibro Cannons- 100
2 Vibro Cannons
4 Crew

Fire Prism- 190
-holo fields, spirit stones, shuriken cannon upgrade, vectored engines

Falcon- 205
-scatter laser, shuriken cannon upgrade, holo-fields, spirit stones, vectored engines


I plan on using this list in a GT, so be harsh. I know it could be better if I made it more cooky cutter, and I know how to do that (I'm not a moron), so don't give me any "drop the vibros for another falcon, and Maugan for the avatar" crap.

As crazy as it may sound, I'm not positive Eldrad is as mandatory in this list as he usually is. Sure he is the man, but he doesn't have any special synergy with this list, he just kicks ass on his own. Nothing really needs fortune, or doom. Guide is probably the most useful and the power that will get spammed twice a turn, followed closely by mindwar because of Maugan. If Eldrad can snipe a hidden fist/power weapon from a squad, Ra can take it on his own in combat no problem. I don't know. I'm a little worried about only having 8 scoring units, but 4 of them are pretty safe (holo-tanks + vibros and bikes), so I'm might be trippin'. Maybe I'll drop the wave serpent for another squad of dire avengers...

How would you score my sports, based solely on the list? (1low-10high)
How would you expect an average tourny goer to rate it?

Thanks for reading, C&C is much appreciated!

-Leo037

As crazy as it may sound, I'm not positive Eldrad is as mandatory in this list as he usually is

Of course he's not mandatory. He's mandatory only in footslogger Eldar lists, as there are no disadvantages of taking him then. I'm hoping that the upcoming 5th edition changes the rules so that characters can cast spells even when they start their turn inside a transport.

My Eldar are of the Altansar Craftworld as well, although I decided on a personal colour scheme of black and purple. Being stuck in the Eye of Terror for so long must've had an effect on the guys. My army uses Harlequins, Dragons, bikes and tanks, and as HQs I alternate bike Autarchs and Eldrad.

Maugan Ra- 195

I find it hard to justify paying 195 points for this guy. He costs the same as one fully equipped Falcon afterall, but I guess he's in there for theme reasons.

Fire Dragons- 112
5 Fire Dragons
1 Exarch with dragon’s breath flamer and crack shot

I like this setup, but the points cost is 113, not 112. Although I use the exact same elites choices as you do and I like the Harlequins I've been thinking about the possible effectiveness of running three squads of Fire Dragons with a crack flamer in each. They cause a ton of wounds on anything and are relatively easy to use.

Guardian Jetbikes- 134
1 Warlock with singing spear and destructor
1 Jetbike with shuriken cannon
2 Jetbikes

This is great. I use three squads like this, but because I mostly play 1.5K I've had to cut back and not take shuriken cannons.

Dire Avengers -120
10 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent- 155
-twin scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, vectored engines, spirit stones

This is where it gets sort of tricky. I don't like Dire Avengers for any reason. They get outshot by stuff like Shoota Boyz, and the Bladestorm Exarch power should double their shots instead of add only one since they lose one full turn of shooting. The Wave Serpent is overpriced. It's a dedicated transport that isn't hard to shake in order to prevent it from shooting, and it's not a particularly resilient tank either. You'd expect more from a 155 point vehicle. For the price of this squad and the transport you could buy two more of those 4man biker squads with Destructor Warlocks, and still have points to spare. It's not hard to use all your bike squads in unison and concentrate their firepower in one place. Let's face it, those Destructors kill more of anything than the Avenger Catapults do, and the biker guys got 3+ armour saves and T4. If this unit is your theme unit, it's setting you back in overall power quite a bit.

Vibro Cannons- 100
2 Vibro Cannons
4 Crew

Fire Prism- 190
-holo fields, spirit stones, shuriken cannon upgrade, vectored engines

I haven't tried the Vibro Cannons ever but on paper they seem like fun. Many people would tell you that if you take a Prism you take another one as well, but I don't know.

Mostly I'm worried about the fact that you got two squads of Harlequins footslogging the middle of the field with Eldrad and Maugan Ra. They are victory points that most enemies will try to go for and if they have elements fast enough to come inside the Veil zone and shoot, those VP's aren't incredibly hard to get.

How would you score my sports, based solely on the list? (1low-10high)

Where I'm from the sportsmanship score is about the player not the army, but if you're talking about giving you points for army composition and theme I'd give you a 9. The only thing that seems slightly out of place is the Vibro Cannons. Somehow you'd expect that if the Guardians are bringing out heavy support platforms there would be normal Guardians somewhere as well.

To be very blunt I do not see how this list will be effective. Sorry to say that but it is true. You have no solid way of getting those Harlies into combat before they get shot up. If mount one of them in the Falcon then your fire dragons are going to be shot up before they can do anything.

The Eldar army in general is to fragile to slog it up the board. That is why the Falcon is such an effective transport. Without them protecting your core assault force I can't see this army winning more than 2 games at any of the GW GTs.

A single Prism is not worth anything, Eldar Vehicles are the easiest, and I do mean easiest, to shaken. For 190 points to get 3 shots 1 of which should miss is not my Idea of a good heavy support choice. Its only function is to be a gun ship that will open cans. It can't even do that well on its own. Mind you my opinion of that vehicle changes if you had a second.

If you know how to make the list better I would chose to do that. If it is a tournament list why not bring the best list you can think of?

If I were to score you for comp I would give you a 4. Nothing in this list seems like it should go together. You have a phoenix lord with none of his aspect in the list. you have clowns but no clown cars. 1/2 your army can move 24"+ a turn the other half are on foot trying to keep up. There is little consistency in this list.

As therion said the only way I could grade sports is if I play against you in a tournament. And for the most part its going to be all or nothing from me.

I find it hard to justify paying 195 points for this guy. He costs the same as one fully equipped Falcon afterall, but I guess he's in there for theme reasons.

Yeah, it's a little hard to convince people it's actually Altansar if their single-most associated character isn't in the army... He's really only overcosted because of his lack of an invuln, and Eldrad solves that problem. Otherwise he's amassing. He, along with the Destructor Bikes, are some of the only units I consider to be effectively multi-role. I used to be in the same boat as you, but after using him enough if he were scoring I'd prefer him to the Avatar. Also, I love the paintjob I've given him.

This is where it gets sort of tricky. I don't like Dire Avengers for any reason. They get outshot by stuff like Shoota Boyz, and the Bladestorm Exarch power should double their shots instead of add only one since they lose one full turn of shooting. The Wave Serpent is overpriced. It's a dedicated transport that isn't hard to shake in order to prevent it from shooting, and it's not a particularly resilient tank either. You'd expect more from a 155 point vehicle. For the price of this squad and the transport you could buy two more of those 4man biker squads with Destructor Warlocks, and still have points to spare. It's not hard to use all your bike squads in unison and concentrate their firepower in one place. Let's face it, those Destructors kill more of anything than the Avenger Catapults do, and the biker guys got 3+ armour saves and T4. If this unit is your theme unit, it's setting you back in overall power quite a bit.

First off, they don't have bladestorm. But I go off and on with it. The trick is not to use it every chance you get, but only before they're about to (a) die (b) go into combat (c) end the game. Eldrad does wonders with dire avengers though, any combination of doom/guide, makes them easily the equal of any unit they can be compared with. Btw, what else can they be compared with besides shoota boyz anyway? lol. Two foot squads (one with bladestorm) instead of the serpent would give the harlies a bit more foot support, make them easier to guide, and add to my scoring units. They would be very vulnerable though. I don't want to replace them with destructor bikes for monetary reasons, though it is a good idea.

Mostly I'm worried about the fact that you got two squads of Harlequins footslogging the middle of the field with Eldrad and Maugan Ra. They are victory points that most enemies will try to go for and if they have elements fast enough to come inside the Veil zone and shoot, those VP's aren't incredibly hard to get.

If there is a Tornado or devilfish mounted fire warriors or what-have-you threatening the harlies, I've found that sticking the grav-tanks right in the way usually helps a lot. It also helps to keep the squads ~13/14 inches apart with Eldrad + Ra in the middle, this way, its hard to threaten both squads at once, whilst they're still able to support each other. Actually, that’s a lie, I've never actually used two squads of harlies in a game, but it's what I imagine. I've often wished for another squad for that exact purpose.

I haven't tried the Vibro Cannons ever but on paper they seem like fun. Many people would tell you that if you take a Prism you take another one as well, but I don't know.

They're amassing. If grav-tanks weren’t grav-tanks, I'd take more. For only 100 points, you can demolish Tornado Squadrons (1d6 glancing hits yes please!), scare your opponent into not giving it good lines of fire (combined that with the prism and flamers, and there’s suddenly a lot of things to worry about in the movement phase for your enemy besides being where he wants to be). It's great for monoliths too. It'll rock the crap out of SAG meks too. It's great in cleanse for holding my edge. It's great against KoS too for when they hide a vehicles behind other vehicles. Divination means it's hard for opponents to deploy around them too. I could ramble on forever about their utility. That, and they're not a mainstay tourny choice, so people like you for taking them.

@Negativemoney: If you need to use tri- falcons to be competitive, I truly am sorry for you. I played a list with one falcon, one serpent, kroot, avatar/maugan, two squads of foot guardians and went 4-1 at the chicago GT. The game I lost was the last-- on table 5. I used the same list in the Vegas GT against Yakface and got a minor victory. It should have been a minor victory for him, and I'm the first to admit that, but even if I had lost, it would be nothing to be ashamed about. I know that doesn't mean anything, and I'm not bragging. Just don't be so condescending to anything that isn't an Eldrad, Avatar, Tri-Falcon, Harly/Dragon list.

Oh, and I don't play Eldrad/Avatar/tri-grav tank because it's boring to play against. And in case you've forgotten, this is a game.
-Leo037