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Made in us
Been Around the Block





I dunno if escalation works the same everywhere, but for where I am the rules are as follows: start with 1000 points for the first game, add 500 points for the second game without altering anything from the original 1000 points. To clarify, no units can have models added to it or have options modified at all, nor can you remove units. Also this doesn't mean make your second list 1500, if you were 5 points under 1k, then you will be atleast 5 points under 1500. Then for the third game add another 500 in the same fashion.

Here's the list

Eldar Escalation
1000
Autarch- jetbike, laser lance
120

6 Fire dragons
96

3 jetbikes- SC
76

3 jetbikes- SC
76

3 jetbikes- SC
76

Falcon- Holo-fields, Spirit Stones, Scatter laser, SC
185

Falcon- Holo-fields, Spirit Stones, Scatter laser, SC
185

Falcon- Holo-fields, Spirit Stones, Scatter laser, SC
185

A strong start to the typical eldar crap. VE's have never really helped me.

+500
6 Harlequins- shadowseer, 6x kisses
162

6 Harlequins- shadowseer, 6x kisses
162

Farseer- Jetbike, Singing Spear, Guide
108

Vyper- 2x SC
60

A strong finish to the typical eldar crap. Farseer to guide falcons, and to throw his lasspear at tanks. Maybe use the farseer to start and add the autarch here.

+500
10 Dire Avengers
120
Wave Serpent- spirit stones, EML, SC
140

10 Dire Avengers
120
Wave Serpent- Spirit stones, TL SC, SC
120

And a slight devation to the typical eldar crap to finish the list off. I wish i could do more with the exarchs, but the points don't allow for it. Perhaps some warp spiders instead of one of the units?

So overall its just ur average eldar garbage, but i would still like to hear your opinions on it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/01/06 22:56:08


When you combine Speed and Power you get Lightning. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

Now that's a neat way to run escalation. Quite original.

The Vypers aren't very useful except in large numbers.

The DA and their transports are also....not very good.

Have you thought of running a Seer Council on Jetbikes? For 500 points you get a exceedingly good unit.

I'd drop the Vypers unless all they are is objective grabbers in the late game.

   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





well there is only one vyper, and thats in there because there isn't really anything else I can fit in the first addition.

I actually like DA's in wave serpents, their relatively long range (compared to other aspects) besets the weakness of the transport. They throw out a lot of anti-infantry fire power and can usually force enough saves to give marines trouble. So after all the HS, HQ, and elite are done these are what I like.

If they aren't up to tournament snuff then what else should I use? All i have left are fast attack and troops. I wouldn't mind using some warpspiders.

For the second addition I would like to try the seer council, but I don't have the models. Also, why 500? I added up the points to a 5 man seer council and it was only 275. Do you use a squad of 10?

When you combine Speed and Power you get Lightning. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





So i've looked over the list, and after playing a bit more i have come the the realization that wave serpents are in fact pretty bad. It just pains me to pay 120+ points for a transport that is easily glanced and destroyed, which also makes it a liability to the troops inside of it. Also (though not having used them yet) i feel adding warlocks to the jetbike units could be very helpful. I am finding that eldar in general have trouble filling out 2000 points and staying competitive. I end up using some units that many would consider not "top tier" though i still have had good enough success with them that i dont mind too much.

Eldar Escalation

1000
Farseer- doom, guide, spirit stones, singing spear, jetbike
153
6x fire dragons-exarch with DBF and crack shot
113
6x fire dragons
96
2x jetbike squads-3x jetbikes, SC, warlock with singing spear and destructor
134 each
2x falcons-holo field, spirit stones, scatterlaser, SC
185 each
1000


+500
6 Harlequins- shadowseer, 6x kisses, shadowseer
162
falcon- holo field, spirit stones, scatterlaser, SC
185
Autarch- mandiblaster, fusion gun, laser lance, jetbike
140


+500
vyper- EML
65
vyper- EML
65
9 Warp spiders- exarch, dual spinners, withdraw
230
jetbike squads-3x jetbikes, SC, warlock with singing spear and destructor
134

Though stelek said vypers aren't very good, i think they could be useful with long range weaponry that would keep them out harms way wile they take shots. Alternatively I could take an EML serpent for my dragons instead of the two vypers in the third portion (and just keep the dragons in the falcon), although this might break the escalation rules. The way it reads in the eldar book, it doesn't look like you buy a waveserpent as a direct upgrade to the squad, but rather you can take up to one waveserpent per squad that allows it.

When you combine Speed and Power you get Lightning. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

Oh not what I meant. 1 vyper with no upgrades and a single shot weapon, not very good. 2 vypers with stones, holos, shuricannon, and scatter laser? Good, annoyingly so.

You are correct that is how it appears to be worded (regarding the wave serpents) but remember it's a dedicated transport so only they can use it anyways.


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cherry Hill, NJ

Vypers with a single weapon and stripped down can provide some nice protection to the rear of a Falcon. For the cost having those vypers (though they do need star engines) can follow a falcon and sit behind where the access point is so your opponent won't be able to block it. This way the cargo will almost certainly get out and do its damage.

Though there is nothing wrong with the annoying vypers that Stelek mentioned they just tend to be a little more expensive than most people will spend on a AV 10 skimmer.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

Tank shock moves said Vypers out of the way.

Moving away and blowing the Vipers up are also good choices.

Sitting a unit to speed bump whatever is coming out is another good choice.

Bunching up to absorb the assault and break whatever is coming in combat, is another excellent option.

Spending that many points on a gimmick? Priceless.

   
Made in us
Infiltrating Oniwaban






Those bling-heavy Vypers may be hard to kill, but they're not going to do much more than make your opponent have to decide whether to laugh or chortle.

I'm a big fan of 2x the 2xSC Vypers. They're a big enough threat to make opponents divert forces to deal with them, especially after going 24" for the enemy flank in the first turn. I'm not a huge fan of bikes though, so perhaps having those makes Vypers redundant anyways.

Infinity: Way, way better than 40K and more affordable to boot!

"If you gather 250 consecutive issues of White Dwarf, and burn them atop a pyre of Citadel spray guns, legend has it Gwar will appear and answer a single rules-related question. " -Ouze 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

The bling-heavy Vypers are threats to virtually every unit in the game. Shoot them, they retreat and return next turn.
Just like Falcons, only instead of tri-Falcons you have tri-duo Vypers to deal with too.

Add in Jetbikes and you have a Ghost army...shoots you, you shoot and do little, it returns and shoots you again.

Most armies take casualties from said shooting.

   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





A single glancing hit has a 25% chance of killing a holofielded vyper.

(44, 45, 46, 54, 55, 56, 64, 65, 66 == 9/36 == 1/4)

One of the flat out worst ideas I have ever heard proposed.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





I know that only the dragons can ride in the serpent if i decide to do it that way. I actually would keep them in the falcon, and run the wave serpent alone. I feel much safer about using serpents without worrying about expensive troops inside of them. And when you think about it, one TL EML is almost as good as two regular and when its on a 12/12/10 non open topped vehicle i think 1 EML serpent vs two EML vypers the serpent comes out on top. I could also use it as a decoy to draw a lot fire, because people would probably be afraid of whats (not) inside of it. Although it not being scoring hurts.

For the vypers haveing 2x SC, its probably more efficient offense wise but you only need to sneeze on em to kill em. I figure if they get within 24 to shoot something they are gonna get wasted. I can see how tooling vypers up would be annoying, but you would have 100+ point vypers that (if long's math is right) still die relatively easy. Though I find it funny to think they are only one gun away from what a falcon has.
Also the only reason i'm using vypers is because i'm running out of useful stuff to put in. I have the models for them, and i have no other choices really (having almost completely consumed the FOC, and FA being generally sub-par). I would like to try a bike council, but i would need to convert 10 warlocks in a week.

Something i've been wondering about, would starcannons on the falcons be better than the SL's? I generally stay away from starcannons because they are more expensive for less shots, and when shooting hordish things or vehicles the ap won't even matter. It also helps make up a bit for the general lack of eldar anti-horde.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/01/13 10:21:26


When you combine Speed and Power you get Lightning. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

Great longshot. I'm glad you disapprove.

Get more experience please, specifically with the Eldar.

You don't have enough, and who said anything about 'proposed'?

   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth






Busy somewhere, airin' out the skin jobs.

Stelek wrote: 1 vyper with no upgrades and a single shot weapon, not very good. 2 vypers with stones, holos, shuricannon, and scatter laser? Good, annoyingly so.



OH MY GOD.


Now THAT is funny (and slowed).

Had to see what all the fuss was about the Vypers when longshot mentioned it in the other thread, I agree with longshot, probably THE WORSE advice I've seen for eldar vehicles. All those points on an open topped armour 10 vehicle....brilliant.

I have never failed to seize on 4+ in my life!

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COMMORRAGH 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Man, why does everyone like to completely destroy everything stelek says?

Why don't you just disagree with him and give a reason. You don't need to throw out "that is the worst idea i've ever heard" et cetera with slabs of sarcasm and what have you.

To you its an idea, to him it may be a tried and true strategy that works well. Maybe its his metagame that makes them useful, or perhaps some other factor. Either way, he wouldn't suggest something that he knew was bad. Whether or not they would perform in a globally accepted 'test of skill' like a GT or whatever isn't really an argument for this thread, as I didn't intend my list for a GT or anything even remotely as competetive. This is for a local tourny with goofy escalation rules that will probably favor some races over others.

Anyways, I have already acknowledged that I probably won't use them. So if you could drop it I would like some more real advice for my list.

When you combine Speed and Power you get Lightning. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cherry Hill, NJ

@Stelek you need to learn your Rules. a Tank that Tank shocks can only move in a strait line. This being said the Falcon will 10/10 times be in between the Tanks and the Vyper (because this is part of the whole strategy) When the Falcon moves the Vyper will move as well. There is no real way around it as it is a solid tactic.

@LightningGus: Because Stelek likes to do the same to every one else so its an indication of how he would like to be treated (The Golden Rule).
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Recently, I learned in a tourney (that I won) that Harlies are not really needed. I took Fire Dragons, with each squad led by an Exarch with dragon breath. They can do the same job, but are considerably cheaper.

In escalation, its important that all squads are able to move fast. An Autarch on jetbike with reaper launcher is a good buy.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Yea...i really wanted a reaper launcher on my autarch, but i'm two points short of it in my first +500 section.
Unless your suggesting to swap out the harlies for fire dragons, thus netting me the points to take the gun. I agree that dragons and harlies have very similar roles, its just that i would like to have a little bit of actual combat to help out my autarch, or the chance that they go on a rampage through a gunline, ect.

plus i dont have the models...and the tourny is in a week

When you combine Speed and Power you get Lightning. 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Two points too short...
Well, you could drop one kiss, but its too good to be dropped.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
 
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