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This questions deals with assaulting a stationary skimmer

I have studied the YAQ Faq and the rules found on page 69 concerning skimers moving fast...and the rules found on page 71 concerning skimmers not immobilezed counting as moving over 6".

How is the conclusion reached in the YAQ Faq concerning ..skimmers moving fast, overides the rule on page 71 in the paragraph HITS, just under the box.?

the "always counts as" section in the rule seesm to be final in this situation in HTH weither the skimmer actualy moved or not.

Seeking understanding ....

Why are you confused?
it's pretty clear
you always need a 6 to hit them in CC unless they are crash laned eldar skimmers or immobilised landed skimmers. then you just hit them automaticaly.

If they moved and you immobilise them. aside from eldar they die.

If they moved over 6" they can only be glanced reguardlss of the source of the attack or how much it gets through the armor.

I agree with you 100% Mughi, My question is primarily towards Yak's FAQ that syas the speeder had to move prior to HTH to get the speeder moving fast bounus in HTH... THe assumption seems to break the Rule book .

Skimmers moving fast is different than the to Hit roll needed to hit a skimmer. Skimmer moving fast only relates to penetrating/glancing, which does require movement. The "to hit" needed is different and is always a 6 on a non-immobilized skimmer, regardless of how far it moved. Two different things and so they don't conflict.

mughi3 wrote:... ...


If they moved and you immobilise them. aside from eldar they die.

... .

Tau skimmers all have landing legs and if not moving over 6 inches set down on their legs rather than crash. (I think.)

The thing is that the statement on pg 71 only refures to the roll to hit table that it is found after, it doesn't extend to any other section of infentry assualting vehicales.

Kilkrazy wrote:Tau skimmers all have landing legs and if not moving over 6 inches set down on their legs rather than crash. (I think.)

any skimmer that moves less then 6" when imobalized will land

AtraAngelis wrote:I agree with you 100% Mughi, My question is primarily towards Yak's FAQ that syas the speeder had to move prior to HTH to get the speeder moving fast bounus in HTH... THe assumption seems to break the Rule book .

Because the skimmers moving fast rule requires that the skimmer ended its move more than 6" from where it started. Remember a skimmer could move 24 inches but still end up in the same place on the table, in which case it doesn't benefit from the SMF rule.

So even though the assault rules state that skimmers always count as moving more than 6" unless the skimmer actually physically moved more than 6", it doesn't benefit from the SMF rule.


Make sense?

I thought that I should point out that a Skimmer vehicle cannot move 24" but still end up in the same place on the table. Movement in 40k is picking up models from Position A and replacing them in Position B some distance away.

Actually if you really wanted to, you could....but it'd get you nothing in game terms.

Yea, the rules specifically state you must be >6" away to take advantage of the rule, mentioning that circling is not enough. It would seem the writers do not consider the absolute distance between A and B to be >0 as a requisit of having moved, merely the statement that the unit moved.

Nurglitch wrote:I thought that I should point out that a Skimmer vehicle cannot move 24" but still end up in the same place on the table. Movement in 40k is picking up models from Position A and replacing them in Position B some distance away.

I disagree. Models have a total movement allowance but there is nothing in the rules that indicates that the total distance the model ends up from its starting position constitutes its "move".

On the contrary, the vehicle rules reference combining forward and reverse movement, that a vehicle may turn any number of times during its movement and that those turns don't take up any movement, etc. Plus the skimmers moving fast rule (as I already mentioned) are all references that the distance models move along a "path" is what determines their total move.


For instance, if models need to move around the corner of a building (in an 'L' shaped move) you have to trace the "path" of their movement around the edge of the building. This means the models may end up only a few inches from where they started (distance-wise) but they have most definitely still moved their full 6 inch movement allotment.

Yak I agree that a models total move is equal to the distance it moved including turns and the like. How ever when it comes to skimmers since they ignore all terrain at no point would they need to trace an 'L' Path or the like. The SMF rules state that the distance that the vehicle moves is greater than 6" from where it started. They also include that a vehicle may not move forward and backwards to count as moving fast this would seem to indicate that the distance a skimmer moves is measure from A to B in a strait line.

Negativemoney wrote:Yak I agree that a models total move is equal to the distance it moved including turns and the like. How ever when it comes to skimmers since they ignore all terrain at no point would they need to trace an 'L' Path or the like. The SMF rules state that the distance that the vehicle moves is greater than 6" from where it started. They also include that a vehicle may not move forward and backwards to count as moving fast this would seem to indicate that the distance a skimmer moves is measure from A to B in a strait line.

The ability for a model to move along any path it likes wouldn't be dictated by terrain. If you want to move a model in a zig-zag or circle pattern, you can. In fact, the SMF rule makes it clear that you are indeed allowed to move your models in such ways but in the case of SMF that excess movement isn't going to allow you to utilize the rule.

yakface wrote:
So even though the assault rules state that skimmers always count as moving more than 6" unless the skimmer actually physically moved more than 6", it doesn't benefit from the SMF rule.

The disagreement here is strictly under the hand to hand section and the incorporation of the SMF rule.

I understand you logic, but thats not what the RAW says. No where in the rule book does it say the bolded text under the HTH rules. Shooting wise i have no problem and totaly agree with how its written, but me and my gaming group just cant seem to agree with your FAQ on this issue. Just so you know we use your FAQ almost like a bible in our group but this one issue stuck out at us glaringly since there is a tau player and a Raven wing player. and even those with no skimmers in our other armys cant seem to agree with this one interpretation.

Is this a ommision by gw, or are we reading more into the rule than should be??? anyways... thanks for your hard work Yak.

AtraAngelis wrote:

The disagreement here is strictly under the hand to hand section and the incorporation of the SMF rule.

I understand you logic, but thats not what the RAW says. No where in the rule book does it say the bolded text under the HTH rules. Shooting wise i have no problem and totaly agree with how its written, but me and my gaming group just cant seem to agree with your FAQ on this issue. Just so you know we use your FAQ almost like a bible in our group but this one issue stuck out at us glaringly since there is a tau player and a Raven wing player. and even those with no skimmers in our other armys cant seem to agree with this one interpretation.

Is this a ommision by gw, or are we reading more into the rule than should be??? anyways... thanks for your hard work Yak.

I'm glad you guys enjoy it!


But I'm not sure I get what you're saying. The only place the SMF rule is presented is on page 69 and there it clearly says:

"In order to qualify as moving more than 6 [inches], the skimmer must end its move more than 6 [inches] away from where it started the turn. Players may not claim their skimmers are 'circling' or moving 4 [inches] one way and 3 [inches] back. Skimmers are dependent on their speed and agility for avoiding enemy fire, and adequate velocity cannot be attained while circling."


Now, the Hand to Hand rules (on page 71) only say:

"A skimmer that is not immobilised always counts as moving more than 6 [inches] in its previous turn."



Absolutely nothing in that second quote says that the skimmer counts as having physically moved more than 6 inches from where it started that turn and that is exactly what is required for the SMF rule to be used.

Because it is possible for a skimmer to move 12" one direction and then 12" back to the same spot. Even though it endrf up in the same spot, since it moved more than 12" it would be unable to fire, disembark troops, etc. It would definitely not get the SMF bonus as the prerequisite for that bonus is that the skimmer ends its move physically more than 6" from where it started.

So while a skimmer in combat always counts as having moved over 6", unless it physically moved more than 6" then trying to claim the SMF bonus would be breaking that rule.

I think i understand.

After talking about it with my group our understanding is the rules on page 68 and 71 are not related.

68 deals with and only shooting. page 71 the rule deals with HTH and applies to the to hit roll based on the chart just above the rule. (ex: Auto hit, +4 or +6). THus applying the rule on page 71 in the raw only to the box above... it would read any skimmer irrelevant of momement prior, when attacked in HTH , you need a +6 to hit.

THis is why we could not understnad your conlusion on applying the SMF rule in HTH, there was a disconnect.

It will take some games to see how this plays out, Thanks for your input in this thread Yak.

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