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I'm running a drop pod list right now with standard Cleanse and Purify/True Grit, Counter Assault traits. Right now, my squads have Powerfists, Melta-Guns, or Plasma Guns. I also have 3 dreadnoughts with Heavy-Flamers. A friend has recently suggested that I need more flamers in my army. I don't have any flamers in my tac squads because I don't like giving up my high strenght, ap2 shots. He recommend that I give my sgts combi-flamers. I'm toying with this idea now and was wondering if anyone on Dakka had ever used this/seen used this tactic. Do you think it's cost effective, 10 points for 1 shot? To what level of success?

well unless you come out to 1850 exact and you have a point or two to spare, why not. Drop pod armies really do need to lay down a thick blanket of hurt as they show up. You use or drop pods would help ensure that you'd be close enough to get the shot off.
now if you need those points for something else more vital I wouldn't bother.

I've thought about the drop pod army with 3 pods each with 3 specials that way.

The problem is, if you look at the new codexes, Tac Squad sgts in the DA/BA codexes can't take combi-weapons. So you might convert a model just to not be able to use it in the semi-near future.

It's effective just remember true grit doesn't work with combi-bolters. Well, didn't use to. Don't think it does. lol

I thought True Grit worked with all bolter weapons. So storm Bolters, Bolters, and Combi-Bolters are all fair game.

Only grey knights can use true grit with stormbolters.
edit:
Also we have at least another year of 4th edition with codex daemons, space wolves, and necrons. And thats not even including D.eldar and guard. Also there is no real way to know what changes are going to be made or when. We're only assuming that Space marines are going to be redone first. So model it up now and enjoy it for the next 2 years or so.

I'll have to check my codex when I get home, but I thought that it worked with any bolter. Can anyone with a SM codex handy clarify?

It says so specifically in the BBB under truegrit

Well there you have it, I wonder if the flamer is worth a cc attack with a powerfist.

Probably not, or if so, only on one unit perhaps.
What about death wind launchers? I never used them, but they might offer the same function of combi-flamers (aoe clearance of the landing zone) with multi shots, at the cost of more points no ignoring of cover.

Might be fun, especially against guard and orks, and anything else with a poor T and Sv.

Would it be worth one less attack? depends

On a tightly packed group of kroot I knocked 13 out with with a heavy flamer. However that would translate to only a few dead marines.
it waters down the effectiveness of a PF but gives you a nice way of dealing with hordes. If you wanted to stay focused on MEQs though there is always combi plas.

The fist on a squad of marines is generally there as a deterent/to mop things up, not as the primary threat of the squad.

Rangers and gaunts/(non-XC stealers), especially if they're in cover, die quickly to flamers.

Also a flamer that hits 3 marines is better than one attack with a power fist in one round.

If you're worried about modeling things that might get changed later, that's one more reason to magnetize. Plus you get to try out other options with your non-pod lists.

Hey all. I am a DP exponent. In a 1500 point list I use about 6, although I have 10 for my Apoc. Battles(you can substitute them for Rhino's in a 'Company'). I found that a Deathwind is the BEST thing you can do for a DP. for 20 points, S5, AP 5, 5" Template, BS 2 (which sux-but oh well). 50 point total. AV12 all-round.

10 Marines, 1 Flamer OR Melta. as both have thier adv. Maybe a mix of the 2, so Meltas can be dropped nearer to the Tanks, Flamers near Inf.

Comes to about 210 points per squad. Plus, the DP can be used effectively as a LOS blocker.

Just IMHO, is all.

The answer to the need for more flamers is very simple.

Siege dreadnoughts.

Whats better than a 24" range str6 ap4 flame template? Nothing in the scope of normal 40K unless you go apocalypse.

You already have the dreadnoughts. So the transition should be easy.

Forgeworld Siege dreadnought rules

I think it's an OK idea. Advantage of Combi-flamers is that you're only going to shoot that thing once or twice anyway. Obvious disadvantage you're paying a good five points too much.

While you can't mix it with true grit it's a good place to put a single lightning claw. In the current 'dex it only cost 15 points and you'll get an extra attack on the charge with it.

You can always try it with just one.

I have taken combi-flamers as the default wargear upgrade for all my terminator squads. I think it is the best combi weapon you can purchase due to the fact that when you fire it, YOU WILL NOT MISS. Give the current love for both gaunts and orks I can't think of a better way to surprise you opponent when those marines come jumping out and drop a flame template on their closest unit.

Siege dreads are so cool. Not only are they rockin' in the rules department (which is rare for FW units), but they're so easy to convert.

I'm definitely going to build one of those into a future Salamanders army.

When I play drop pods, I run three squads with dual flamers and a power fist vet, and three squads with dual meltas (one five man suicide squad, and two with fists).

Never been tempted to waste ten points on a one shot flamer and I'm not gonna start now.

Here's why: when my drop pods drop, I flame once, then I'm in assault the next turn (either they assault me or I assault them). I stay in assault a long time and rate to be there at the end of the game.

The +1 attack per phase with a powerfist almost inevitably makes me more points than one flamer shot would have on the drop - and it costs less.

Sounds like a gimme to me.


FYI: I play with free bp/ccw instead of true grit, and never looked back. I've got the marines for both, and bp/ccw is always better.

FYI: I play with free bp/ccw instead of true grit, and never looked back. I've got the marines for both, and bp/ccw is always better.

I'm curious as to how you figure that. The turn you drop, you won't be charging, so the bolter is better. Thereafter, if the enemy is able to take you on in CC, you will probably egt charged, not be charging; if it can't, it will hardly matter if you have one more attack in the oen turn you charge or not.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:

FYI: I play with free bp/ccw instead of true grit, and never looked back. I've got the marines for both, and bp/ccw is always better.

I'm curious as to how you figure that. The turn you drop, you won't be charging, so the bolter is better. Thereafter, if the enemy is able to take you on in CC, you will probably egt charged, not be charging; if it can't, it will hardly matter if you have one more attack in the oen turn you charge or not.

It's True Grit + Counter Attack for a reason. Don't underestimate those bolters. Two shots at 12" and don't forget they hit on a 3+ and are AP5.

Tacobake wrote:

tegeus-Cromis wrote:

FYI: I play with free bp/ccw instead of true grit, and never looked back. I've got the marines for both, and bp/ccw is always better.

I'm curious as to how you figure that. The turn you drop, you won't be charging, so the bolter is better. Thereafter, if the enemy is able to take you on in CC, you will probably egt charged, not be charging; if it can't, it will hardly matter if you have one more attack in the oen turn you charge or not.

It's True Grit + Counter Attack for a reason. Don't underestimate those bolters. Two shots at 12" and don't forget they hit on a 3+ and are AP5.

1) True grit/counter costs 3 pts a model. That's around a 14% increase in the cost of your squad generally speaking. (in an 8 man squad you're paying +24 pts on a 175pt or so squad.

2) Bolt pistols get one fewer shot. So in a squad of 8 guys I'm losing five bolter shots on the drop (less the specials and vet). In exchange I get five more attacks when charging - and you can bet I will be charging because I want to get the points out of my powerfist vet. I also get the same attacks as your 14% more expensive squad when charged.

3) Another little-noted advantage is that I can move, shoot all my weapons and then charge, which you can't do. So on a regular basis I will gain five bolt pistol shots that you don't get with true grit/counter.

True grit/counter is a frigging waste of points on drop pod marines. You should be buying an apothecary and bolters, or bp/ccw, flat out, no question.