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this has probably been covered but i cant find it with my searches. my friend has only just started playing necrons and we have a bit of an issue.

the situation is this:

in my shooting phase i reduce a necron lord with a res orb to zero wounds. in my assault phase, i cause 5 wounds to five necron warriors who are within 6 inches of the necron lord. (who was reduced to zero wounds in the shooting phase) these wounds were with power weapons. do these necrons get WBB rolls.

i know that the necron lord has a special rule allowing him to use the res orb on himself if reuced to zero wounds but do other models get to use his war gear while he is "dead".

this issue came up later. we rolled to decide the above issue and it cam,e up that other models can use the orb while the lord is dead. the lord with the res orb died and failed WBB roll. my opponent wanted to keep using the res orbs abilities. he said that his lord was dead but the res orb still works. he said that by the same logic that you can use the res orb after the lord has been reduced to 0 wounds, before his WBB roll, you can use the orb after the lord fails his WBB roll. He said the lord is rubble at both times and the orb works.

thias seems a bit cheesy to me. it means he has indestuctable war gear that works when the carrier is "dead". please clarify as we cannot came to an agreement. me because it sux and him because its really working for him.

Im fairly sure you are in the right on this one. when a model fails its WBB roll it is removed from the table. in that case any warriors who die will not be in the 6" radius to the lord with the orb. at least, thats my impression

my question is a bit unclear. i dont know whether that answers it though.
questions:
1. does a necron "die" before it makes its WBB roll?

the WBB rolls are made at the end of the turn but the models "die" when the lord is ?"dead"? so

2. do the necron warriors get to use the ?"dead"? lords res orb abilities?

I would say until the necron player takes his WBB roll the necron is not "dead" if a necron fails his WBB roll he is dead and removed from the table and hence any wargear options (such as the res orb) cannot be used.

I would say that until the lord fails his WBB roll other necrons can use the orb

can you supply the rules to back this up?
this creates more questions

1. what state is the necron in before it takes its WBB roll?

2. what is the difference between the state before and after the WBB roll.

the lord has a special rule allowing him to use the orb on himself after he is reduced to zero wounds?

3. why add this a a special rule for him specifically and not say something about other necrons?

4. why can the lord use the orb after he has been reduced to zero wounds but not after he fails his WBB roll?

another one is: why can a modelk be classed as a model before it has made its WBB roll but not be classed as a model for target selection, assaulting, psychic abilities, movement, etc.

Rules i think are important to the issue.

1: from the WBB "any necron model that is reduced to 0 wounds or otherwise would be removed as a casualty remains on the tabletop and is laid on its side to show that it is damaged.

so from the codex we can determine that the 0 wound pre WBB models are not 'dead' but instead damaged.

2: from the WBB rule as well "at the start of every necron turn damaged necrons may self repair. roll a d6 for every necron capable of self repair on a 1-3 that model is removed as normal on a 4-6 that model stands back up with 1 wound remaining.

when the model is removed it is no longer damaged it is a casualty.

as to the resurrection orb i dont think its a special rule allowing a lord to use his own orb but a calirfication from the necron codex...

"...then it cannot self repair unless it or another necron lord within 6" has a ressurection orb"

which leads me to beleve that ressurection orbs work when held by damaged models.

can i use the necron lord as a valid target for further shooting, assaulting etc after it has been damaged?
does it still count for holding an objective/quarter?
if not why not

the rules say something about having to have another model of the same type within 6" to get a WBB.
does this mean that "damaged" necrons cover this. eg. i kill an entire squad of necrons warriors. they are the only necron warriors on the table. but each damaged necron has other damaged necrons within 6" so they get a WBB???

do damaged necrons count as necrons on the table?

i feel the need for a yakface ruling

in other (though poosibly not clearer) terms,
why can you use the wargear of a damaged lord and measure to a damaged lord for WBB rolls but not measure to an equally damaged warrior for same type WBB rules.

game situation:

player 1 has two units of 5 warriors(W) with a lord with res orb.(RO) The closest three warriors are within 6" of the lord. the warrior squads are 6" away from each other.

WWWWW RO

WWWWW

The lord is reduced to zero wounds in the shooting phase.
then, all of the warriors are reduced to zero wounds with power weapons in the assault phase.
The necron player is trying to use the orbs ability to WBB the warriors with 6" of the damaged lord. The warriors need to be within 6" of another model of the samne type. the necron player measures the distance between his damaged warriors. it is 6" so he gets back up??

do you use damaged models?????

do damaged models count?? the lord and the res orb have a special rule. all other necrons dont fit under this umbrella

as to your last question its not a special rule by my understanding its a clarification of the requirements for the lord to return via WBB. you cannot add more shooting or assault on damaged models for 2 reasons A: what would it accomplish and more improtnatly B: the rules state that "damaged necrons ignore unit coherency rules and cannot be attacked in any way"

The rules for your question of if a damaged model counts for the needed model for WBB the rules are not clear on (and im suffering from insomnia and i may be just missing them) but i would say that it needs to be an undamaged necron of the same type.

We'll Be Back rule states that Damaged Necrons are ignored COMPLETELY for all normal game purposes, even unit self-repair. So, if the Lord was shot down during the shooting phase, his wargear is no longer in play, and so any Warriors that were dropped during the assault phase do not benefit from his Resurrection Orb. Those Warriors did not have the Lord within 6" of themselves because he is IGNORED completely for game purposes, which includes the use of wargear. Since the WBB rule states they were dropped by an armor ignoring weapon, they don't even get dropped on their sides, but are immediately removed as casualties. Now, if you want to debate about what is defined as normal game purposes, be my guest, but like most interpretations based upon a single word variable, good luck getting a consensus.

Everyone wants an edge during play. However, understand that the rules are not another weapon to be used in game, but are used to make the game flow and so everyone can have fun with a minimal amount of arguing. If your opponent wants to debate about wording further to gain his edge, well, thats up to you and him on how you want to proceed.

Litko Aerosystems sells a line of plastic skull tokens that are quite handy for marking where dead Necron models used to be so you don't have to mark up your models by laying them on their sides. One advantage to replacing the 0 wound models with a token is that it clearly differentiates between the models that can take WBB rolls, the models that cannot take We'll Be Back rolls, and the W1+ models whose proximity will allow We'll Be Back rolls or not.

If the Necron Lord is at W0 at the beginning of the Necron turn and it has a Resurrection Orb, then it is the only Necron that may make a We'll Be Back even if it had been wounded by weapons that deny the We'll Be Back roll.

If the Necron Lord is at W1+ at the beginning of the Necron turn and it has a Resurrection Orb, then any Necron within 6" of the Lord may make a We'll Be Back roll even if they are wounded by weapons that deny the We'll Be Back roll.

A common mistake amongst Necron players is to confuse the distance of a damaged Necron (one at W0 about to making a We"ll Be Back) to a functional Necron (one at W1+) or to a Tomb Spyder when there is a functional Necron of the same type on the board. Some Necron players misunderstand this distance to indicate the unit of which the damaged Necron is a part. This is wrong. The distance is to the Necron, the model.

Hence a Necron model that is hit by a power weapon, but not within 6" of a Necron Lord with a Resurrection Orb, will not get a We'll Be Back roll and should be removed from the board (or not have a token substituted for its corpse if you're doing it that way). Likewise if a Necron is reduced to 0 wounds and its unit falls back out of 6" range, and no Necrons of the same type are within 6" at the beginning of the Necron turn, then it should be removed instead of making a We'll Be Back roll for it.

thank you all for your responces. it has helped our situation. i would still like others to add their take on the situation though. keep adding as someone might have a good point to make.
thanks again

Assuming Nurglitch's answer is right ( which is how I played before, so I tend to believe he is... ), are all the necron's army WBB roll simultaneous?

Could I roll WBB for my lord to get it to stand up, then roll for necron around his WBBed Res Orb

or

Do I roll for all damaged necrons that can WBB and then place then all on the board?

Where/how is this covered?

Have a good giggedy!

OK, if the Lord is still standing at the time that the Warrior goes down, the Warrior can use the Orb abilities. If the Lord is down (ie battlefield debris) att he time the Warrior goes down, the Warrior cannot use the Orb abilities.

Re the 6" bit. that only applies to determine whether or not a model is eligible for a WBB based on distance to a similar model and has nothing to do with the Orb, which will affect an entire unit so long as a single model from that unit is within 6" of the Orb.

You roll for all of the damaged Necrons at once.

This is quite simple:
The effect of the ResOrb is checked at the time a model is damaged (reduced to zero wounds). If the ResOrb is in range the model is affected (thus the Lord with an Orb is always in range and always benefits from its effect). A damaged Lord is treated as battlefield debris, this includes all his wargear; thus, a ResOrb in the hands of a damaged Lord is useless until the Lord is repaired. Damaged models denied a WBB roll (due to being outside the range of the ResOrb) are removed immediately, all others are placed on their side.

WBB rolls are done at the start of the Necron turn with the check for like models occuring at this time. Models not satisfying the WBB requirements or that have failed their WBB roll are removed at this time. All WBB rolls (sans rerolls allowed by the Monolith) are assumed to occur simultaneously thus there is no need to repair the Lord "prior" to repairing other models.

I concur. The Lord was killed in the Shooting Phase and for all intents and purposes is dead until he takes his WWB roll at the start of the Necron player's turn. Any and all Necron Warriors that were killed in the Assault Phase by weapons that deny an Armor Save do not receive the benefit of the WWB rule and are immediately removed. This is due to the fact that there is NO Resurection Orb in range because the Lord is downed and not an actively participating model. How much clearer can this be made? Unless we are all saying the same thing but in very different ways.

Hence why it's a good idea to replace the models with tokens so you don't get confused.

Nurglitch wrote:Hence why it's a good idea to replace the models with tokens so you don't get confused.

For once, I think we're in agreement.