Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just noticed that some peeps seem to like raveners. I understand their place. They work kinda like genestealers but they can assault 12' and have a worse over stat line. At 40 points a model they are the point equivalent to 3 stealers, but with fewer attacks and worse stats. For the points I'de assume that stealers with scuttle or horagaunts could fill a similar roll and wouldn' have to worry about being insta killed.

Raveners are the "secret weapon" of my Godzilla list. They serve 2 roles; 1, counter assault, I sit them behind my TMC's or behind cover and wait for the opponents assault units to try to jump my TMC's then pop 6-8 raveners on them. 2, to quickily get a second turn assault on a shooty squad that set up within 18" of interposing terain (woods, or ruins).
Genestealers do not fit in my Godzilla list because all of the troop slots are filled with 72 guants. At 80 points for a unit of 2 raveners, they are also great objective grabbers.

Darrian

gdurant wrote:I just noticed that some peeps seem to like raveners. I understand their place. They work kinda like genestealers but they can assault 12' and have a worse over stat line. At 40 points a model they are the point equivalent to 3 stealers, but with fewer attacks and worse stats. For the points I'de assume that stealers with scuttle or horagaunts could fill a similar roll and wouldn' have to worry about being insta killed.

Once you start adding in those upgrades, it becomes more like 2:1 (even with Extended Carapace only) or 1.5:1 in terms of Stealers to Raveners.

If the whole army is assaulty I can see the improved utility of Genestealers. However, Raveners seem to shine quite well in a Godzilla gunline set-up. They can hide behind terrain/other creatures and then move quickly to assault vulnerable enemy units or free Carnifexes from close combat. Keeping them around Hive Tyrants helps to eliminate the Insta-kill issue. It seems like a difference in style to me as a non-Tyranid player, but from what I've played against Raveners are certainly a viable option.

Edit: Darrian beat me to it-my comments on Raveners were mostly inspired from playing his list.

The combination of being easier to hide behind a wall of MCs, combined with the extra 6" assault range, makes Raveners a winner for counterassault. That extra assault range can really surprise folks and/or lead to a huge board control area. They each cost as much as 2 upgraded Genestealers, but dish out an equal number of attacks on the charge (and more than that should they survive to fight a second round of assault). The slightly lower initiative rarely matters.

The only two downsides of Raveners vs carapace GSs are 1) they are more vulnerable to AP5 weapons (though only deepstriking units should ever get a chance to shoot them prior to their assault), and 2) no flesh-hooks.

Really, if I could give Raveners flesh-hooks I would never have bothered assembling any stealers.

How do the gaunts fare in your list in crapscalation?

gdurant wrote:I just noticed that some peeps seem to like raveners. I understand their place. They work kinda like genestealers but they can assault 12' and have a worse over stat line. At 40 points a model they are the point equivalent to 3 stealers, but with fewer attacks and worse stats. For the points I'de assume that stealers with scuttle or horagaunts could fill a similar roll and wouldn' have to worry about being insta killed.

You are right. Just about everything Raveners can do, Scuttling stealers do better (and they start on the table in Escalation).

The only things Raveners have going for them is:


A) You can get a scoring unit for a mere 40 points (single model).
B) Raveners are better at reacting to threats than Genestealers, meaning that if you have the Ravener hiding behind your TMCs, the Ravener is able to manuever and charge incoming enemies easier than Genestealers.


So those are really the only reasons you should be using Raveners instead of stealers (unless you just like the Ravener model to death and want to include more of them in your army).

gdurant wrote:I just noticed that some peeps seem to like raveners. I understand their place. They work kinda like genestealers but they can assault 12' and have a worse over stat line. At 40 points a model they are the point equivalent to 3 stealers, but with fewer attacks and worse stats. For the points I'de assume that stealers with scuttle or horagaunts could fill a similar roll and wouldn' have to worry about being insta killed.

A 12" charge is a wonderful, wonderful thing. A ravener is basically two vanilla 'stealers glued together, one less point of WS (rarely used, never needed), one less point of IN (rarely needed) and one less attack on the charge (which would be helpful, but not essential). From there you're looking at paying 8 points for leaping, which is something of a bargain.

Raveners are vulnerable in large mobs, its harder to hide them and it becomes too attractive to the other player to move speeders and other fast units into firing positions against them. But small mobs are very affordable and still hit like they're 'stealers. An excellent support unit when numbering 1, 2 or 3 models each.

Ravenors use up Fast Attack slots, they can use ranged bio-weapons, and they can Deep Strike on occasion. Turning up behind Orks with a Deathspitter is very useful, and the ability to jump Barrage weapons that might be giving your swarm some hassle is likewise handy.

Best of all, you can take them alongside Genestealers.

The ravenor is my favorite model in the game.

Even in my stealer-shock list, I make room for 2-3 raveners. They are just so useful.

Darrian

Every single zilla list should at the very least include 3x1 ravener. They're a scoring unit that can add 5 rending attacks to any combat almost anywhere on the table.

Plus, you can throw one of them at a stationary tank for a very good shot at a kill (5 autohits, 5/6 chances of a rend, nets you something like a 40% chance at a penetrating hit on the front armor of a stunned predator). I have used them for this more times than you would expect.

In a pure godzilla list, raveners will always win over scuttling stealers, because in a 7-8TMC list you can't afford to have enough scuttling stealers to make scuttling worth it. You're better off keeping raveners behind your TMCs and still having around a 15-20" engagement range.

At 3 x 1 ravener, you can afford to use them just to soak up shots if needed. It's rarely in anyone's best interest to shoot an entire tank or entire squad at a 40pt unit, but you can essentially force this to happen with proper positioning (using the ravener as a threat to pull a unit's firing away from a carnifex).

I'm hard pressed to think of a Tyranid army that isn't served well by 3 x 1 raveners, to be perfectly honest.

I've just always been let down with how flimsy ravaners are, I used them i nthird ed for a it, never tried them in fourht yet, I have a feeling, 3 lictors and a broodlord with 5ish stealers infiltrating 3X1 ravaner a hive tyrant with twin linked devourer and either GS's or Hormogaunts + termagents Dakkafexes, gunexes times X wouldnt be too bad for a bi9t of an initial assault and taking fire away from the tmc's?

EDIT: This aint one of my armies, just somethign i'm asking from what you guys have said here.

Also leaping/flying warriors behind tmc's with scythign talons and Rendimg claws (rending claws and devourer if you wish) would also be quite nice in place of devourers? Costly obviously, you have to take min 3(?) but meh just popping out ideas.

Hivefleet_Damocles wrote:I've just always been let down with how flimsy ravaners are, I used them i nthird ed for a it, never tried them in fourht yet, I have a feeling, 3 lictors and a broodlord with 5ish stealers infiltrating 3X1 ravaner a hive tyrant with twin linked devourer and either GS's or Hormogaunts + termagents Dakkafexes, gunexes times X wouldnt be too bad for a bi9t of an initial assault and taking fire away from the tmc's?

EDIT: This aint one of my armies, just somethign i'm asking from what you guys have said here.

Also leaping/flying warriors behind tmc's with scythign talons and Rendimg claws (rending claws and devourer if you wish) would also be quite nice in place of devourers? Costly obviously, you have to take min 3(?) but meh just popping out ideas.

man what

Lictors are pretty expensive and tend not to last past the first round of assault.