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hihi, gotta question for you all:

in my SoB army, i want to run 6 battle sister troop squads in rhinos, all assassins (death cults) for elites, both special characters (celestine/karamazov) as HQ, 3 seraphim squads as fast attack, and nine penitent engines as heavy support (im not building it to win so please no comments on how well the list will perform ^^;; )

the problem im facing is, to bring the penitent engines, i am required to include a priest in my army. the only unit im fielding that i can attach him to is one of my battle sister troop squads. the problem with that, however, is that i want them in rhinos, or at least be able to purchase six rhinos. the battle sister squads are 10 girls minium, so to include a priest with one would make the unit too large for their rhino.

so ultimately my question is: can i take a 10 girl battle sister squad, buy them a rhino, then attach a priest to the squad? (i will of course be fielding them separate from their rhino on the table top then)

thanks in advance for your replies!

Without looking I think you can attach him, but then never put them in the rhino, which can be a good idea at times

Battle Sister Squad entry clearly says "If the squad numbers ten models or less, it may be mounted in a Rhino..."...

No, if you take a priest in the unit, you will not be able to take the transport because you have more than ten members in the squad.

DaBoss wrote:Battle Sister Squad entry clearly says "If the squad numbers ten models or less, it may be mounted in a Rhino..."...

No, if you take a priest in the unit, you will not be able to take the transport because you have more than ten members in the squad.

to be a bit more clear, the way im reading it is: take the sisters squad from their section, buy them a rhino accordingly. so far so good. buy a priest, then attach him to the squad. you've already bought the squad a rhino, so you get that, but now they're too big to ride in it, which is fine with me. im looking for whether or not this approach is legitimate though.

Mr. Bombadidaloo wrote:

DaBoss wrote:Battle Sister Squad entry clearly says "If the squad numbers ten models or less, it may be mounted in a Rhino..."...

No, if you take a priest in the unit, you will not be able to take the transport because you have more than ten members in the squad.

to be a bit more clear, the way im reading it is: take the sisters squad from their section, buy them a rhino accordingly. so far so good. buy a priest, then attach him to the squad. you've already bought the squad a rhino, so you get that, but now they're too big to ride in it, which is fine with me. im looking for whether or not this approach is legitimate though.

It would be a bit of a rules-lawyerly reading of the restrictions, to say the least.

Interestingly.. the rules are more permissive of this when it comes to Celestins (or any specialized battle sister squad). They aren't restricted to buying a Rhino only when there are 10 squad members or less. One would assume that this was an oversight, written without the restriction simply because the standard Celestin squad cannot number more than 10. But along comes a priest.. Still a loophole, but at least you don't have to choose the order in which you take your options in order to justify it.

BTW, I realize this does not solve your problem as your elite slots are full.. just thought it was interesting.

Mr. Bombadidaloo wrote:to be a bit more clear, the way im reading it is: take the sisters squad from their section, buy them a rhino accordingly. so far so good. buy a priest, then attach him to the squad. you've already bought the squad a rhino, so you get that, but now they're too big to ride in it, which is fine with me. im looking for whether or not this approach is legitimate though.

But the squad its more than 10 people at that point, therefore the Rhino becomes invalid even AFTER you take the priest. It's an illegal unit at that point. It says "if the squad numbers ten models or less", not after upgrades or before them. This implies that the squad must continually meet these standards before the game begins in order to be valid.

DaBoss wrote:

Mr. Bombadidaloo wrote:to be a bit more clear, the way im reading it is: take the sisters squad from their section, buy them a rhino accordingly. so far so good. buy a priest, then attach him to the squad. you've already bought the squad a rhino, so you get that, but now they're too big to ride in it, which is fine with me. im looking for whether or not this approach is legitimate though.

But the squad its more than 10 people at that point, therefore the Rhino becomes invalid even AFTER you take the priest. It's an illegal unit at that point. It says "if the squad numbers ten models or less", not after upgrades or before them. This implies that the squad must continually meet these standards before the game begins in order to be valid.

why would that not instead simply imply the squad can no longer ride in the rhino?

By that reasoning, could you buy a Rhino for a 10-Sister squad, then add more Sisters to the squad "after" that? Surely not.

List construction has no chronology. All prerequisites and preclusions must be complied with simultaneously.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:By that reasoning, could you buy a Rhino for a 10-Sister squad, then add more Sisters to the squad "after" that? Surely not.

List construction has no chronology. All prerequisites and preclusions must be complied with simultaneously.

there would be a difference. the priest is "attached" to the sisters squad, not bought as an addition or an upgrade for them. a similar but not-so-similar example, that may at least get you to think about this in a different light: what if I buy a HQ model, then attach it to the same 10-girl squad after having bought them a rhino? there is nothing that will prevent me from doing this, they just can no longer ride in the rhino. i guess what it comes down to is how you're going to go about reading the correct mannerisms of army list building in terms of what layer applies when :|

Sorry mate. You can't do wht you want to do.

It was pointed out to Andy Hoare during playtesting.

Ended up in the book anyway.

Run your 6th Sisters squad as a ground unit, give it a few more members, and hide it behind your vehicles so you can get them into action.

Just the way it goes.

Wasn't there a similiar discussion involving CSM squads of 10+ having a rhino?

The concensus on that thread seemed to be that it was OK to have 20 CSM in a squad, and letting them have the vehicle, even though they couldn't use it.

Mr. Bombadidaloo wrote:

tegeus-Cromis wrote: what if I buy a HQ model, then attach it to the same 10-girl squad after having bought them a rhino? there is nothing that will prevent me from doing this, they just can no longer ride in the rhino.

Here's the Difference (and please correct me if I'm wrong about this for the SoB 'dex). In 4th Ed. you cannot "attach" an I.C. to any squad (besides a retinue or other unit which the rules state otherwise) BEFORE the deployment phase of the game. I.E. the unit must be ON the table before an I.C. can join it. I believe a priest must be attached to a squad BEFORE deployment at the time of the "list build", at which point all requirements and restrictions for having a transport must be met.

The question is do you need to indicate which squad the priest will be attached to during the army construction process (writing up your list) or can it be determined during deployment?

If it is during the construction of your list, you may not have the rhino. However if it is after then yes you can have him and then attach him to a single squad that is not deployed in a Rhino.