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I just started WHFB and I picked HE before I even looked at the Army Book because I loved the Mini's and I'm and Eldar fan in 40K so... I looked at the army list and said wow 15 points each for 3 great units, but Phoenix Guard seemed the best buy and I really don't like the White Lion Mini's. So I run two units twenty strong with full command, and everyone hates me. Is it cheese to use great looking mini's with good rules. I've only played 2 games and I won both games by turn 5, both players only have one mini left. I think they are just mad because I'm really new to the game and they have been playing for years. It just sucks that I can't have fun winning....

To get started, at what point value are you playing?

Just remind the guy that you pay 75 pts per rank and most units pay 40 or less.

Your unit is an elite unit costing 350 or more letting people tag team it.

If they cant flank an elite unit (what is the rest of your army)through either incompetence or your skill, then they cant complain.

They're decent units, but I agree with cypher that they're hardly unbalanced. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

One more vote for the 'ur friendz are nutz' camp.

Phoenix guard aren't even the best of the 3 options. Swordmasters are the best MSU infantry unit in the game and white lions have stubborn, which I'd value more than a 4+ ward. Both hit much harder than phoenix guard.

The biggest use of phoenix guard is against UD. Small units of sword masters can wiff combat once and get run down. White lions are even more likely to do so (assuming they dont have the no fear banner).

Phoenix guard are fine with a small wiff as they wont take much damage in combat and dont care about the fear.

They are also good against tough beat stick units such as ironguts( with impact hits) which would pound sword masters into the dust.

We're playing at 2500 points. With a 9LD and 4 Ranks and Full Command, I'll drive them into any unit. Because that get that Ward Save it's much better than not getting one.

No one's been able to flank that unit? Do Phoenix Guard
get an extra rank attack from the sides?

They don't get the extra rank from the front, so I don't they get it from the side. That being said all three elf elites are good, but as having a 3-400 point unit that can actually win a combat or two isn't that unreasonable.

High Elves do better in larger point games. Some of their magic items and spells get a better return the bigger the game. Drain magic and the magic phase ends gem both profit from as big a game as possible.

You can also afford large units of elite High Elf infantry.

Most players use elite infantry for MSU ('Multiple Small Unit' - Yakface should add this to the glossary).

MSU averages at ten for most armies, the normal minimum. You could go as low as five, but I wouldnt go lower than seven. MSU is great for flank defence, however you need a reasonable unit size to work as a line unit.

I use units of 15, it looks better than single ranks of infantry and is very efficient. You are going to be outnumbered anyway so boosting to 20 just for the extra rank isnt going to help. 15 stands in a fight long enough and has enough combat resolution to give most oponents a hard test to pass at the end of the combat.

The kicker is to try and manoeuver your MSU 'detachmernt' onto the opponents flank yourself.

The problem is that your 15 ranked up unit, and MSU detachment will be facing two large fully formed infantry blocks between them, and depending on what your opponent is playing they may have as lot of spare change left over.

The problem they have, which you can exploit, is that even if they have another two large units into the bargain, they have nowhere to put them. This is where High Elves sting in large games. Above 2000pts many armies have filled up the front rank, and are forced to place the rest of their army into a second line, by clever manoeuvering you can destroy the opponent piecemeal. You will stillneed to flank and beak your enemy though, as you will not be able to afford too many casualties dealing with the first wave if you want to hold out against the second.

High Elves also benefit from terrain for the same reason. Unless fighting beastmen or Wood Elves, you will benefit from having as much terrain clutter as possible. Impassible rocky mesas being the best as they keep everything except flyers out, and High Elves can afford air superiority, again especially in larger games..