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Shas'el w/ Plasma & CIB, Targetting Array, HW Multi-Tracker - 100

2 Crisis Suit w/ TL Missile Pod & Targetting Array - 106

Crisis Suit w/ Plasma & Fusion, Multi-Tracker - 62

6 Stealth Suits w/ Bursts, Shas'vre, Bonding Knife - 195

12 Fire Warriors w/ Shas'ui & Bonding Knife -240
-Devilfish, SMS, Decoy Launchers

12 Fire Warriors w/ Shas'ui & Bonding Knife -240
-Devilfish, SMS, Decoy Launchers

8 Gun Drones - 96

Piranha, Fusion, Targetting Array - 70

Piranha, Fusion, TA - 70

Hammerhead, Ion Cannon, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Decoy Launchers - 140
Hammerhead, Railgun, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Decoy Launchers - 175

Total of 1494.

To raise it to 1750, I will add a second Railhead, and a second Helios (PR&FB) Crisis, along with a Team Leader & Target Lock on one of the Deathrains.

Is it any good, or is it a total fop?

Ion canons are a big NO NO!!! Rail guns only on Hammerheads. Ditch the gun drones for another Piranha or more suits. Otherwise it looks like a decent list.

Looks like a pretty good list. I have some suggestions though.

First of all most Tau players tend to take a minimum of 2 Railguns in a 1500 points army. Most of them even take 3, but since you have the two piranha's with fusion blasters in your army, two railguns will be fine. Also, target locks are a really nice addition to Hammerheads with SMS.

The second change I would suggest is dropping the Shas'ui and Bonding Knife upgrades on the fire warrior teams. They will be hiding in their transport most of the time anyway so you will not need the leadership boost. With these points you can buy the much needed multi-trackers and targeting arrays for your Devilfish'. The shas'ui and bonding knife upgrades aren't really necessary on the stealth team either. I'd suggest you drop those as well.

These changes are going to cost you some points, so you'll need to drop something. I would suggest dropping the gun drones and replacing them with a buddy for your lone Helios suit. This will leave you with 10 points left. I'd suggest getting Disruption Pods for both Hammerheads, they really help out when you get stunned (and you will).

I hope I have been of some assistance.

Here's Mark 2. I eventually chose a third Piranha, over another Helios.

Shas'el w/ Plasma & CIB, Targetting Array, HW Multi-Tracker - 100

2 Crisis Suit w/ TL Missile Pod & Targetting Array - 106
Crisis Suit w/ Plasma & Fusion, Multi-Tracker - 63
6 Stealth Suits - 180

12 Fire Warriors -240
-Devilfish, SMS, Decoy Launchers, Multi-Tracker, Targetting Array
12 Fire Warriors -240
-Devilfish, SMS, Decoy Launchers, Multi-Tracker, Targetting Array


Piranha, Fusion, Targetting Array - 70
Piranha, Fusion, TA - 70
Piranha, Fusion, TA - 70

Hammerhead, Railgun, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Decoy Launchers, Disruption Pod - 180
Hammerhead, Railgun, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Decoy Launchers, Disruption Pod - 180

-1499

I would drop the fire warriors to 6, 8 or 10. Probably 10.

Use those points to make the odd crisis suit a second Shas'el.

Put missile pods on the shas'els. CIB's are crappy when you can engage vehicles/monsters/troops with the pod and be much more flexible.

Drop the stealths to 3 + 6 gun drones.

Drop two Pirahna, add a third hammerhead with an Ion cannon.

Longshot wrote:Put missile pods on the shas'els. CIB's are crappy when you can engage vehicles/monsters/troops with the pod and be much more flexible.

NO.

I refuse, point blank, to use Fireknife in any shape or form.

The CIB is arguably better vs everything except vehicles, and with two railheads, three fusion piranhas, two deathrains and a helios, he should NOT be shooting at vehicles.

Any reasoning behind dropping the fire warriors and stealths? Surely a unit with more models is harder to hide, and suffers due to majority saves, whereas more firepower with the firewarriors is better?

10 fire warriors is the optimal shootie squad size. Still takes 3 casualties to start runnin'.

Dropping the 4 fire warriors gets you enough points to make the odd crisis suit into another Shas'El, which is a much better choice than a single crisis suit with BS3 (for not a lot more points).

The stealth unit with 3/6 gets 9 wounds with a stealth generator for around the same points as your squad (possibly less) and adds pinning, in exchange for 3 S5 shots. I think it's a little better from a durability standpoint and the pinning can be useful. It's questionable though.

The drones also make the unit able to soak up a longer assault, which can be good if you're trying to time something or tie a unit up for a while. I recall someone a while back on the boards was using this unit to shoot and charge to finish off small fearless/marine squads (since it dishes out a good number of attacks and can afford to sacrifice a few drones).

If you refuse to use a fire knife you're just being silly. It's a great unit particularly when it's a Bs5 IC who will get to shoot 6 times every game.

You're definitely entitled to having your prejudices, I'm just trying to make suggestions for the best list.

Longshot wrote:If you refuse to use a fire knife you're just being silly. It's a great unit particularly when it's a Bs5 IC who will get to shoot 6 times every game.

You're definitely entitled to having your prejudices, I'm just trying to make suggestions for the best list.

Except that the optimum ranges of Plasma and the missile pods are far apart (12" and 36"), so they function best in different situations (Plasma up close, Missile Pod far away), whereas the CIB's is 18", which is also pretty close. Also, from what I can tell, the CIB has a far better chance than a missile pod vs power armour (been ages since I did probability, mind, so I might be wrong due to the wounding), or atleast, it has a chance of being far better.

Besides, everyone around here uses ruddy Fireknife. Every time I end up borrowing my friend's guard, all I ever see is Fireknife, Fireknife, Fireknife. It'd be nice to see a change from that.

Also, I was thinking of deep striking the Helios suit (and possibly the Shas'el) in some situations. Is this remotely a good idea, or is it a complete deathtrap?

If you make them both ICs, you should never deepstrike them. They have immunity to shooting, so you should be on the board at all times shooting.

Plasma and Missile pod also have a sweet spot range of 24". they will molest light vehicles, and do good damage to squads from that range. The only time you put them at 12" is if you are sure they'll be safe.

Lots of people seem to like the CIB, but Tau have a huge shortage of S7 guns in most mechanized configs, and plenty of marine killing (S5 is fine for killing marines). If they let you put two missile pods on your HQ suit, I would definitely do it.

With three fusion piranhas, do I really have need of even more mid-high strength weapons?

Between those and the Deathrain suits, do I really need even more stuff to destroy lighter vehicles?

Also, how would you guys upgrade this list to 1750, 1850 and 2k points, beyond adding a third railhead?

FK's suck imo. They cost too much for too little output and even when they do hit something the enemy usually has a cover save or an invulnerable save of some sort. This is why I only give plasma to my HQ's, plus Firestorms and Death Rains are just as effective if not more than the FK.

I like your HQ, but you could get more out of him if you make him into a Ninja'O. A Ninja'O is an O with two weapons, VRT, and Stims. A CC tau commander sounds very strange but it is one of the most unique HQ's commanders around and it gives the user so many options.

FW's are too fleshy and for that reason I would only advise one unit. One unit won’t make much of a difference, but you also have a unit of stealth’s which allows you the choice to combine fire, thus not even needing the second FW squad.

If you insist using two Mech FW squads I then suggest making your SS's into MLSS's so they can really come into their own when they disembarking from their protective covering.

Some Kroot would be nice, but a lot of people do not like them for some reason. Point for point Kroot are better than FW’s and they can also do a myriad of things that FW's can not.

IC's are a great investment, but a lot of people are going to say that if it is not a RG it is a bad decision. I run a IC; however, I still needed more RG's on the table so I brought along some BASS's. A RH, BASS's, and some Piranha’s can do a great job at demolishing armor, and it is a more flexible application than the RH spam imo.

Here is a sample list of what I was talking about.

HQ: 135
O: CIB, PR, VRT, HwMT, HwStims

Elite: 384
Vre: AFP, TLMP, HwMT, HwDC, 2xSD's
Fire Storm
Total: 158

4x SS's: 120

2x DR's w/ TA's: 106

Troop: 345
12x FW's
Dumbfish w/ DL
Total: 205

2x10 Kroot: 140

Fast: 140
2x1 FB Piranha w/ TA

Heavy: 495
TmLd: ASS, HwBK, HwDC, 2xSD's
BASS
Total 200

RH: BC, MT, DL: 165

IH: BC, MT, DL: 130

List Total: 1499

Good luck and if you still are having problems with your list you might want to check Advanced Tau Tatica for more in-depth info.

Spec.Ops wrote:FK's suck imo. They cost too much for too little output and even when they do hit something the enemy usually has a cover save or an invulnerable save of some sort. This is why I only give plasma to my HQ's, plus Firestorms and Death Rains are just as effective if not more than the FK.

I like your HQ, but you could get more out of him if you make him into a Ninja'O. A Ninja'O is an O with two weapons, VRT, and Stims. A CC tau commander sounds very strange but it is one of the most unique HQ's commanders around and it gives the user so many options.

FW's are too fleshy and for that reason I would only advise one unit. One unit won’t make much of a difference, but you also have a unit of stealth’s which allows you the choice to combine fire, thus not even needing the second FW squad.

If you insist using two Mech FW squads I then suggest making your SS's into MLSS's so they can really come into their own when they disembarking from their protective covering.

Some Kroot would be nice, but a lot of people do not like them for some reason. Point for point Kroot are better than FW’s and they can also do a myriad of things that FW's can not.

IC's are a great investment, but a lot of people are going to say that if it is not a RG it is a bad decision. I run a IC; however, I still needed more RG's on the table so I brought along some BASS's. A RH, BASS's, and some Piranha’s can do a great job at demolishing armor, and it is a more flexible application than the RH spam imo.

Here is a sample list of what I was talking about.

-CHOP-
Good luck and if you still are having problems with your list you might want to check Advanced Tau Tatica for more in-depth info.

I know about Advanced Tau Tactica, and what a Ninja'O is.

MLSS? Markerlight Stealth Suits?

I find the Kroot models to be really ugly, so I would rather not using them.

Which one is Firestorm? MP&BC?

What's a HwBK?

Team Leader w/ Marker Light, Hard Wired Drone Controller, Networked Marker Light
2x SS's w/ Hard Wired Drone Controller, Networked Marker Light

Yes

Hard Wired Bonding Knife

ChrisAsmadi wrote:With three fusion piranhas, do I really have need of even more mid-high strength weapons?

Between those and the Deathrain suits, do I really need even more stuff to destroy lighter vehicles?

Also, how would you guys upgrade this list to 1750, 1850 and 2k points, beyond adding a third railhead?

You have two deathrain suits and they can engage one target.

Also, Pirahna only get to shoot once, realistically. they are not a viable light vehicle killer because their effective range is 24" and they only get one try.

I would drop all the Pirahna for an Ionhead and other stuff though, seriously. Nothing wrong with Ionheads as long as you have railguns covered, and some extra anti-light-armor.

At 1750, you add more suits and more mechanized squads as points permit. I would probably leave off of more suits until I had at least 3 devilfish tho.

Regarding Kroot, they don't fit well at 1500 in the mechanized army, but when moving up a small squad of kroot can be a lifesaver. Infiltrate as a pushback unit, use them to claim a forest, use them to counter charge something, whatever. they're a good buy at 10 for 70 pts with no upgrades.

The reason you use the plasma and the missiles on a crisis suit is Flex.

The way you make them work for you is with markerlight units.

Plasma scares everyone. MP don't.

It might not seem like much, but making BS3 guys BS4 (or BS5) and popping plasma/mp shots at 24" (which is really 30" given JSJ) really puts the pain on people. Anyone gets close to you, you focus your markerlights and give them a dose of the business. 6 BS5 Plasma and 6 Missile shots f*cks sh*t up. Add in a leader so he's BS5 and make that 8 shots. There's usually not much left after that.

Piranhas have a 'nice' feature in that they can pop enemy vehicles.

They are better used as guards for your Hammerheads. Put them forward, and let the other guy take target priority tests to shoot your hammerheads past the Piranhas.

Someone getting too close? Drop 4 piranhas in front of an assault army. Sure, they'll die. Gives you an extra turn of firing. If you can't win by then, you're not going to anyway.

They also have 2 gun drones to annoy people with. You can block a hell of a lot of movement with just 2 piranha squadrons of 2 piranha's each.

Longshot wrote:

ChrisAsmadi wrote:With three fusion piranhas, do I really have need of even more mid-high strength weapons?

Between those and the Deathrain suits, do I really need even more stuff to destroy lighter vehicles?

Also, how would you guys upgrade this list to 1750, 1850 and 2k points, beyond adding a third railhead?

You have two deathrain suits and they can engage one target.

Also, Pirahna only get to shoot once, realistically. they are not a viable light vehicle killer because their effective range is 24" and they only get one try.

I would drop all the Pirahna for an Ionhead and other stuff though, seriously. Nothing wrong with Ionheads as long as you have railguns covered, and some extra anti-light-armor.

At 1750, you add more suits and more mechanized squads as points permit. I would probably leave off of more suits until I had at least 3 devilfish tho.

Yeah, a Target Lock on the Deathrains is one of the main things to add when I expand. If I could find some spare points, I'd add it in, but I don't know where to trim them off.

I may well switch one of the railheads out for an ionhead (I need to bits order the Hammerhead Weapon Sprue for the SMS for the 'fishes, so I can easily build up spare turrets for them to switch 'em out), and add some BASS when expanding, though I'm somewhat worried that the BASS and Deathrains will be left alone in the deployment zone and become overwhelmed.

As for the Kroot, I thought about having something count as for them, but ended up giving up, since I couldn't thinkin of anything better to use, so I knocked it on the head, since I really don't like their models.

Spec.Ops wrote:Hard Wired Bonding Knife

Er... I don't think it needs to be Hardwired.

Bonding knives are mostly a mistake. Tau shouldn't have any squads that need them enough to be worth the points.

I tend to dislike pirahna, but I had a buddy who was running a 2000pt mech list with 12 pirahna, 3 hammerheads and two fish full of fire warriors, and it was surprisingly decent. The scads of gundrones are very good for being annoying.

I would only go with one or two and I would keep them cheap, so they're less of a loss when they die. You don't really need more antitank guns most of the time if you load up correctly and play your railheads right.