Daemon Prince or Chaos Lord

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**ohm242**

Wanted to find out what the populace thinks. At the current moment i'm having a huge issue on either a Daemon Prince (no icon, Warptime, and wings) or a Chaos Lord (Mark of Khorne to go with my IoK unit that he would join, and a Daemon Weapon)

They are both basically the same points (give or take a few)....

Daemon Prince
Pros: Daemon Prince does not die from one shot. Is a big bad threat. Very mobile.

Cons: Is all by his lonesome...and usually dies from a lot of bolter fire (or the equivalent)

Chaos Lord
Pros: Can "hide" in a unit. Has the POSSIBILITY of 16 power weapon attacks on the charge.

Cons: Has the POSSIBILITY of zero attacks. Not as mobile. Can die to a big shot, or a marine power fist.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. My army consists of 8 squads, all in rolling coffins...er...I mean Rhinos.

**Tacobake**

I was thinking a Khorne lord with TL LC on a Jugg inside a 20 man squad of zerkers would be a cool unit to build an army around, especially on a 4x4 table. But the Khorne weapon is too much of a random chance for me.

Other than that I think I prefer Sorcerors, Princes and Special Characters. The new book has no shortage of close combat troops.

**gdurant**

I'm going to throw my vote in for prince (and sometimes sorcerer.)
Psychic powers are just too awesome to pass up.
that aside you need some sort of mechanism to get into CC winged princes have that.

**studderingdave**

i think the DP is more of a sure bet, less possible attacsk then the lord, but at least your guaranteed attacks every round, ask boss salvage about how amazing his demon weapon is.

i would say DP, since your on warptime, your gonna land 4-5 wounds a round if the time goes off. plus with wimngs you get stuck in alot better.

**Boyofdestiny205**

Yeah the prince and to make it really nasty take two so they arent sure which one to shoot

**studderingdave**

well, the second prince can be a bit excessive. it really depends on where you want to go with you army.

is it khorne based? im kinda confused on why you wouldnt mark your DP, is it just a point thing? is it becuase khorne princes cant take powers?

**Mannahnin**

Overall a Daemon Prince is probably a better choice, mostly because he’s a scoring unit. That said, if you want to use a Lord (and his IC status does have some utility), you want to upgrade his mobility. Attaching to a unit isn’t a great choice. You won’t have a lot of units in a Chaos army. You want the Lord to be able to head off on his own when needed and take out at least one unit by himself.

I would never, ever take the Khorne daemon weapon. His odds of standing there and hurting himself are way too high. If you wanted to make a Lord work, you’d want to give him either Wings or a Bike, and Lightning Claws. Lightning Claws allow him to deal out a good number of wounds, particularly in combination with the Mark of Khorne.

**Reaver83**

Demon Prince! A prince with wings and warptime will rip apart almost any squad.

But my favourite combo is just wings and MOK, cheap and it normally gets more attention than the rhinos carrying the troops.

Though i will say i did have a bit of fun with 8 Bezerkers, Kharn and the Khorne lord + Demon weapon in a Land Raider, very very silly, but a lot of fun!

**ohm242**

Sounds good! It looks like the DP is the victor. My army is not Khorne based....it represents all 4 factions....I have 2 squads of each (they are all normal CSMs with icons, and they are all in rolling coffins) hence the reason for no mark on the DP....warptime is just an added bonus....if I could just remember to use the darn thing...lol

**Fatman**

The Undivided Demon Weapon is the only one that I would use. It's really nice to be strength 5.

**njfed**

This does not cover all situations, but you may be interested in some research I did on one vs. one CC.

I have a Daemon Prince of Khorne, a Greater Daemon and a Chaos Lord of Nurgle in the mix.

http://home.comcast.net/~njfed/oneonone.htm

**Mannahnin**

Fatman wrote:The Undivided Demon Weapon is the only one that I would use. It's really nice to be strength 5.

Agreed. It and Blissgiver are the only two I'd consider. Blissgiver if you just want to kill other characters.

**studderingdave**

while the OP seems to have chosen the DP (good choice) i do stand by my plaguebringer. i know ts the least liked of all the demon weapons, but being able to mow down wraithguard, wraithlords, carnifexes and other MC's is a valuable asset, at least where i play it is.

the undivided one is great as well, str 5 goes a long way.

**Terminizzle**

The Nurgle Demon Weapon isn't terrible. It's better than the Instant Death one for killing everything but other T4 characters, I think.

Let's see-
Against WS6 T6:
Nurgle- 8.5 Attacks= 4.25 hits= 2.125 wounds
Blissgiver- 8.5 Attacks = 4.25 hits= .71 wounds, which against a 4 wound MC is worth 2.84 wounds, or maybe 2.13 if it was already wounded

Against WS5 T5:
Nurgle- 8.5 A = 5.67 H = 1.89 W
Blissgiver- 8.5 A = 5.67 H = 1.89 W which is worth 1 dead character (reliably).

Against WS4 T4:
Blissgiver- 8.5 A = 5.67 H = 2.835 W/ 3 ID's
Undivided- 8.5 A = 5.67 H = 3.78 W

Lords with Demon Weapons definitely aren't bad, but Demon Princes are just really good, against everything. Also, Lords either have a 5++ save and move just 6", or don't begin the game on the table, or have no Invulnerable save at all. And unfortunately, you're probably going to encounter quite a few Power Weapon/ low AP hits with either HQ choice.

If you're dead set on fielding a Lord, I'd recommend either:

Bike, Undivided Demon Weapon for 160 points, or
Bike, Mark of Nurgle, Demon Weapon for 180 points

IMO, the only things that makes Lords worth considering is the Demon Weapon and the ability to hide in a squad. A lord with 2 Lighting Claws costs 155 or 160 depending on whether you give him Mark of Nurgle or Tzeentch- which is the same or more than a Demon Prince.

Too bad that for some reason Demon Princes can't use Demon Weapons. Oh well, they'd probably be too good.

**Chingonman**

How does the Demon Prince with warptime preform in yur calcs njfed?

**Stelek**

DP with Warptime/Slaanesh is my preferred favorite.

He crunches everything dead dead dead.

**Terminizzle**

Stelek wrote:DP with Warptime/Slaanesh is my preferred favorite.

He crunches everything dead dead dead.

\\\

If you don't take Lash, what units exactly make you prefer Slaanesh over another mark, like Tzeentch?

**Stelek**

Slaanesh gives I6.

Sure Nurgle gives T6 and Tzeentch gives a 5+ save, but it's in CC that my DP's are going to be and the extra Init makes all the difference.

**Stormtrooper X**

I'm not a Chaos player, but when I was looking over the new codex the Lord just seemed a better choice. The new prince has been brought down a good bit and it seems like the lord just has so many more options. I could be wrong though, it's been known to happen.

**Stelek**

The lord gets the power fist treatment and goes bye bye.

He also loses the ability to have a fist and a power weapon.

I retired my Biker Lord immediately after just 1 game.

**Terminizzle**

Stelek wrote:Slaanesh gives I6.

Sure Nurgle gives T6 and Tzeentch gives a 5+ save, but it's in CC that my DP's are going to be and the extra Init makes all the difference.

Honestly, did you read my post?

Tzeentch gives a DP a 4++ save.

I asked what units specifically "the extra Init makes all the difference" against.

**Stelek**

Oh sorry, guess I didn't read it very well. I just woke up.

All Space Marine Characters.
All monstrous creatures.
All 'fast' infantry like Eldar and Dark Eldar.
The always fun Death Company, charging Warbosses with big axes, Abaddon, the list can go on and on.

Pretty much Harlies, Phoenix Lords, DE HQ's, and Howling Banshees are the only things going faster than you.

Since you do *not* want to fight those units anyway.....

It all boils down to this:

Against I5 opponents, you go first.
Against I6 opponents, they no longer go first.

You can't do much about I7, but they're fairly rare and if you have 2 DP's odds are in your favor you can handle a few I7 assaults and wear them down, even if you lose your DP's in the process.