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Zogwort's Curse is a fantastic little psychic power. I quote:

Old Zogwort has the ability to transform a powerful enemy into a squig. Zogwort may use his curse as a psychic power instead of rolling on the Weirdboy psychic power chart. Choose an Independent Character model that is in Zogwort's line of sight. If that model is within 18", both players roll a dice. If the Ork player scores higher, the target model is replaced with an angry Squig under the control of your opponent. You must provide the Squig model. It has the profile below and no wargear or special rules, but is an Independant Character that counts as Infantry.

So clearly Zogwort's Curse is intended to ignore normal shooting rules- you can pick out Independant Characters with it. The special rules are right there. What's interesting is that it doesn't specify that the target needs to be an enemy model. Therfore, provided you win the dice off with your (confused) opponent, you could turn your own Independent Character into a squig controlled by your opponent.

Why would you want to do this? This is the stupid trick part.

The resulting squig model is still on the table and always has one out of a possible one wound. Ergo, your character, although a Squig, does not provide your opponent any Victory points as it has not been wounded or destroyed by the transformation (note that this works both ways- in order to get Victory points from an opponent's cursed model, you must kill the Squig). In fact, the Squig is an now under your opponent's control. It is now an enemy model. And although enemy models are usually a bad thing, they are useful in that you can kill them for Victory points. And this, folks, is how you take the 70 Victory points your opponent would get for your wounded Biker Warboss, and convert it into 140 points Victory points for yourself. And to add insult to injury, if your Independent Character is fleeing at the time of the curse you don't even have to bother shooting down the Squig for your ill-gotten points.


EXTRA BONUS ZOGWORT TRICK!
An Independant Character suffering from Zogwort's Curse is turned into a Squig which is also an Independent Character. Therefore, using Zogwort's Curse, you can turn that Squig into a slightly different Squig. This is the very nature of progress.

NOTABLE ZOGWORT PITFALL

In the course of looking into the above mentioned stupid trick, I discovered a pitfall with using Zogwort's Curse. If you target a wounded enemy character, it turns into an unwounded Squig. Wounded independent characters are worth Victory points. Unwounded ones are not. Unless you kill the Squig, you could stand to actually lose Victory points by turning the enemy into a Squig.

Um, as soon as you replace the IC with the squig, is it not "off-table", and thus liable to give up full VPs regardless of what happens to the squig?

You don't think turned into counts as killed, then?

I don't see Replaced as equal to Off Table. The model in question is still on the table, it is simply represented differently. It's like when you replace a democharge guardsmen with a regular guardsman after you use the democharge.

As for replaced equalling dead, I just don't see it. The model is still "alive" in that it has one wound.

stupid question but I don't think you can see it when it's in a unit ... or can you?

Mind War: Yes.
Purgatus: No.
Zogwort's Curse: No?

I would take the opinion that it could if in the front row.

Normally an enemy unit would block line of sight. However the IC is within the unit joined. Normally this would mean you are unable to target that IC, however the power specifically targets the IC, not the unit, if within line of sight therefore I would say that if the IC is litterally within line of sight then may still be targetted even if joined by a unit. Just my thoughts

This has always bugged me.

Mind War: "... any unengaged model with 18" of the Farseer and within his line of sight." (this includes heavy weapon guys within a unit and by extension independent characters)

Purgatus: "any enemy model with the Independent Character special rule within 24" of the Inquistor Lord and within his line of sight ..." (their bolding)

Zogwort: "Choose an Independant Character model that is in Zogwart's line of sight."

So I guess there's no problem with it. For some reason I had convinced myself that Purgatus was useless but I don't see why it can't be used like Mind War is.

Triggerbaby wrote:I don't see Replaced as equal to Off Table. The model in question is still on the table, it is simply represented differently. It's like when you replace a democharge guardsmen with a regular guardsman after you use the democharge.

As for replaced equalling dead, I just don't see it. The model is still "alive" in that it has one wound.

as far as this discussion, this isn't Hordes or Warmachine, dead is dead. You kill it you get points for it same as spawnenating.

Here's one:

If you're both ork players on any roll other than a tie, you get to replace the model, since it says 'If the Ork player scores higher' and doesn't specify which ork player.

I want to try it just to see what it does to my sports score.

Tacobake wrote:This has always bugged me.

Mind War: "... any unengaged model with 18" of the Farseer and within his line of sight." (this includes heavy weapon guys within a unit and by extension independent characters)

Purgatus: "any enemy model with the Independent Character special rule within 24" of the Inquistor Lord and within his line of sight ..." (their bolding)

Zogwort: "Choose an Independant Character model that is in Zogwart's line of sight."

So I guess there's no problem with it. For some reason I had convinced myself that Purgatus was useless but I don't see why it can't be used like Mind War is.

So can Purgatus and Zogwort's Curse be cast on IC's engaged in combat (but still visible and in LoS)? Mind War specifically says unengaged model, but not the other two.

- Salvage

Regarding the dead versus replaced issue, I have created a poll in YMDC. The fair forces of democracy shall decide the fate of this contentious issue.

Triggerbaby wrote:Regarding the dead versus replaced issue, I have created a poll in YMDC. The fair forces of democracy shall decide the fate of this contentious issue.

Just remember that attitude put Bush in office for 8 years.

So clearly Zogwort's Curse is intended to ignore normal shooting rules- you can pick out Independant Characters with it. The special rules are right there. What's interesting is that it doesn't specify that the target needs to be an enemy model.

Forgive me for sounding stupid, but isn't there a rule in the BGB that says you CAN'T target friendly models with shooting attacks?

Does his power say it ignores ALL shooting rules, or just the targting rules re: IC's?

Eric

Electoral College does not equal democracy.

Tacobake wrote:stupid question but I don't think you can see it when it's in a unit ... or can you?

The independent character (IC) rules state that you can't target an IC unless its the closest model to you. The psy power specificaly states that you can ignore that rule. Wound assignment / targeting rules state that you can't pick out individual models within a squad (sargents, heavy weapon guys, or attached IC's). Again, the psy power ignores this. Line of sight rules state that models with a toughness that are not monsterous creatures do not block line of sight. There for, an IC in a squad could still be picked out by this power.

Tacobake wrote:

Triggerbaby wrote:I don't see Replaced as equal to Off Table. The model in question is still on the table, it is simply represented differently. It's like when you replace a democharge guardsmen with a regular guardsman after you use the democharge.

As for replaced equalling dead, I just don't see it. The model is still "alive" in that it has one wound.

as far as this discussion, this isn't Hordes or Warmachine, dead is dead. You kill it you get points for it same as spawnenating.

The power doesn't say he is dead. And unlike creating the spawn the enemy player doesn't lose control of the character. Which do you think is more likely? Needing to kill the squig to get any victory points, or getting VP for killing the character then getting the same victory points again for killing his squig form?

Famder wrote:

Tacobake wrote:

Triggerbaby wrote:I don't see Replaced as equal to Off Table. The model in question is still on the table, it is simply represented differently. It's like when you replace a democharge guardsmen with a regular guardsman after you use the democharge.

As for replaced equalling dead, I just don't see it. The model is still "alive" in that it has one wound.

as far as this discussion, this isn't Hordes or Warmachine, dead is dead. You kill it you get points for it same as spawnenating.

The power doesn't say he is dead. And unlike creating the spawn the enemy player doesn't lose control of the character. Which do you think is more likely? Needing to kill the squig to get any victory points, or getting VP for killing the character then getting the same victory points again for killing his squig form?

I was reading it the same as the Gift of Chaos psychic power where the IC is replaced by a spawn and counts as dead. In this case a case could be made that you have to kill the squig since the squig remains under your opponent's control.

whitedragon wrote:Electoral College does not equal democracy.

Well the U.S. is technically a Republic anyways so...

Capt K