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In my continuing quest to find something competitive and unique for the dark angels I give you the following.

HQ:

Sammael (Speeder)

Belial (TH + SS) ............ 335 pts for HQ

Troops: 2x DW squad with assault cannon and SB/PF @ 245 each..... 490 pts for troops

Elites: 3x Dead with assault cannon/heavy flamer @130 each ..... 390 pts for elites

Heavy: 3x Predator with Autocannon and H-Bolter sponsons @95 each........... 285 for Heavy

So what might improve on it? Whats gonna kill it so fast that its not funny? All feedback much appreciated.

Well, Sammael is rather unfluffy in the army.
I'd replace him by another DW squad. The rest looks really good.

yea samael out. definetly another DW squad.

You are short on heavy armor cracking at range.
If you hit a Leman or LR you wont touch it for some time at least not untill your AC get within range or you manage to assault it.

Also your army is dreadfully slow.. you have no way to cross to objective within 2-3 rounds without sacrificing fire power(racing your preds).

but hey , ya never know....

Screw fluff. Sammael is one of the best models in the codex if not the best. Another Av14 vehicle goes just great with all your Av12 and Av13 vehicles.

Keep Sammael.

If you make any changes, I would suggest dropping one of the dreads and a predator for a landraider, perhaps.

I don't think it's going to do well but it's going to be better than 9 out of 10 other dark angel lists .

Gotta agree that Sammael does not fit with the background too well... But I'm after a competitive list here sorry folks, he's never been anything short of amazing when I've used him thus far. ('cept once against necrons when i let him get too close...)
Slow armies have never been too much of an issue for me if i have something to grab an objective last minute.. thats what sammael does well and why he's so good. If things look really bad then i could always deep strike but i'm not keen on that. What would you drop for more firepower/speed?
@Longshot, what sort of Landraider? Regular gives me more armour punch but Crusader lets me carry Belial. Multiple AV14 is a nice thought though. (hmm, 2 raiders and Sammael? not many armies can get 3 av14 in 1500... lol, it'd prolly suck)
So anyone, alternatives if you got them, looking for most competitive army that can be squeezed out of the DA codex.

I tried making this list work.

It just won't work.

Wait for 5th edition and the year of Codex nerfing to come, stretching well into 2009.

Then revisit.

Haha, thought of doing that many times. Trouble is that I've had a DA army as long as marines have existed (old man I am) and I feel I owe it to them to do something with the list. I have many other decent armies If i really feel the need but I just want to see if i can make the best of what we have now.
Incidentally, you think the 'big nerf' will redress the balance to the point that DA will fit in? I've a feeling that they'll still be the kid that never gets picked for the team.
I appreciate that this Codex is enough to make a grown man weep, but whats the best that can be done with it?

Selling it and making another list is the best that can be done with it.

I do think the very harsh Marine Codex nerf coming will be a shock for people.

I think a DA list not based on Raven or Death Wings is pointless. The rest of the chapter is like Codex: Ultramarines but without all the "neat" things they can do.

Since that list is counted on one hand.....that isn't saying much, ya know?

DA is grossly underpowered, but there are gimmicks that can make it good - by taking pretty much only the good stuff.

ex. Razorback horde is good, if you never play escalation
ex. speeder/bike/predators is fine, if you don't play escalation, and don't waste your points on assault cannons or heavy bolters on speeders.
ex. 2-3 landraiders and sammael is a fine list. Crap against some, but usually threatening if you use the right tactics.

You should definitely take a normal landraider if you take it. The extra lascannons are gold for this army.

If it were my list I would do this, assuming landraiders can still be done as transports:

Sammael
Belial

Terminator squad with cannon, landraider transport
Terminator squad with cannon, landraider transport

Predator
Predator
Predator

and make your friends play at 1750

Agreed, I'm also convinced that DW or RW are the sensible ways to go if you have to go DA. It just doesn't seem to add up right though that 95pt preds seems such a ridiculously good bargain. I keep thinking that there's something there... just not yet figured out what it is...

(perhaps its wishful thinking)

Another thing you could do is;

Sammael
Belial

a couple small bike squads

3 landraiders

And tell everyone your terminators are out picking up snacks.

Deathwing is the most worthless thing in the codex. I would rather take basic marines.

250 pts for a squad with one assault cannon? Screw you, I'll take a 10 man squad with las/plas and a razorback with a multimelta for around that price.

Razorback with multi-melta? I'd love one of those but not seen it in the codex, sadly its bolter or las only. Mind you, 80 points is surely not bad for a sniping razorback with a twin lascannon. it'd prolly only get one shot in the game but it might get its points back.

Incidentally, I know there's a lot of hate for terminators post nerf, but i still often find they have their uses when taken en mass.
For sake of comparison the ideal tac squad loadout may well be 10 men plus las/plas and probably a fist on the guy with the dress. before adding a potentally 80 point razorback the unit is 225 points. Do you think that is much better than the 5 terminators plus assault cannon who only cost 20 points more? I'm not convinced. Yesterday for the sake of a test I tried 3 tac squads, a dev squad and an assault squad led by a chappie. Half a company for fluff purposes and a lot of marines and scoring units for 1500 points. I found them pretty flexible with cheap rhino's and the like to block fire lanes.. but i missed the resilience of the DW.

Oh, I play 1500 mostly because usually for pick up and play games in the UK, thats what people bring. I prefer the 1750 though, gotta create a cultural shift here.

Doh, no multimelta option for DA razorbacks? Man GW should be killed.

Anyway, heavy bolter razorback it is then.

las/plas, fist, 50pt razorback or what not weighing in at 275 vs. a 245pt termie squad with one cannon?

That is an easy choice.

If you take the power fist out, they are about even.

I just do not understand the idea of ever taking that deathwing unit unless you just really like deathwing. They are seriously one of the worst units in the entire game.

And how the heck is DW resilient?

They cost 3x as much and their save is only twice as good.

Try:

some hq guy of some kind.

10 marines, las/plas, fist, hb razorback 275ish
10 marines, las/plas, fist, hb razorback 275ish
10 marines, las/plas, fist, hb razorback 275ish

10 assault marines, some kind of kit, around 275ish

3 x predators - 285ish

then play it against your deathwing list and see who wins every single game. I can tell you who it's going to be and save you the trouble though.

Don't get me wrong, the above is still a crappy list. but it sure beats deathwing or ravenwing almost any day of the week

lol, I've been rumbled... I like the Deathwing. Maybe there's a support group or something I could go to.

Oddly enough I have a battle company list almost exactly like the one you posted, with a chappie on a jump pack. It's nice and I have a feeling that in the next edition of 40k it'll be pretty useful.

(edit) should have added, useful by DA standards!

I really wish the case was that DA would be useful in the new rules, but it doesn't appear they will be that great. They will get a little better as Necrons and Marines get nerfed.

But the nerf bat they swung at the DA codex they did not swing at Orks.

If holofalcons get nerfed, you'll be able to compete with Eldar at least

played at 1500 points yesterday with 20 terminators with assault cannons and the three basic dreads against an ork army day before yesterday. Lots of Orks with a KFF, some lootas and stormboys, scary to see it coming at you. Almost no assault happened, they all died on the way in. (lost all the dreads to rokkit fire though)

I know battle anecdotes don't mean much but its fun getting a win like that with DW (even if it seemed like the gods were rolling my dice at times) and that's why I like the army I guess, its nerve wracking to use and I find it keeps me sharp for when I use competitive armies.

Thinking about it, I think there's a lot to be said for having a couple of bad armies, and trying to squeeze as much as you can from them. Surely from a tournament perspective when you're used to doing that and go back to your usual competitive-as-possible lists you're doing so at an intellectual advantage.

Just let me have my two weapons per squad back!!! Never thought I wouldn't have enough basic termies to make use of my heavy weapon termies! What a switch.

MrJones wrote:

Thinking about it, I think there's a lot to be said for having a couple of bad armies, and trying to squeeze as much as you can from them. Surely from a tournament perspective when you're used to doing that and go back to your usual competitive-as-possible lists you're doing so at an intellectual advantage.

This is getting sigged.