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Alright i was wondering Since being tzeentch it allows you to cast two psychic powers a turn, but it says they cannot be shooting attacks, the question is since i am a MC i get to fire two weapons so would i be able to cast for say doombolt twice??

Any insight would be helpful

The Emperor Protects,

Castellan Brant

Try the search function. I'm sure this is addressed once a week or so.

They cannot. The rule for MCs allows you to fire two guns, not shoot twice. This also means hive tyrants cant shoot a gun and use warp blast.

-Leo037

Cypher037 wrote:They cannot. The rule for MCs allows you to fire two guns, not shoot twice. This also means hive tyrants cant shoot a gun and use warp blast.

-Leo037

Forgive me for sounding stupid...

What's the difference?

I mean, I agree re: Doombolt twice (but for a different reason), but what is the difference between firing 2 guns & shooting twice? If you fire 2 guns, didn't you shoot twice?

I'm not being argumentative. I'm genuinely asking.

Thanks.

Eric

As far as RAW is concerned the MoT limits psyker powers to one shooting attack per turn regardles of the fact a MC is using it. This is because the more specific rules overrides the general rule for MCs. Because the MoT rules stated that he cannot use 2 powers that count as shooting he will not be able to. This how ever does not stop him from shooting a gun and using a psyker power as a weapon (if he is even allowed a gun).

Negativemoney wrote:This how ever does not stop him from shooting a gun and using a psyker power as a weapon (if he is even allowed a gun).

Which sadly he isn't. Might come up in Codexaemons though.

Negativemoney wrote:As far as RAW is concerned the MoT limits psyker powers to one shooting attack per turn regardles of the fact a MC is using it. This is because the more specific rules overrides the general rule for MCs. Because the MoT rules stated that he cannot use 2 powers that count as shooting he will not be able to. This how ever does not stop him from shooting a gun and using a psyker power as a weapon (if he is even allowed a gun).

I'd have to disagree with that. The general rule is that models may only fire one weapon in the shooting phase. The specific rules for MCs state they can fire two weapons.

The specific rules for the MoT states they can attempt to use 2 psychic powers per turn, but can't take "shooty" weapons, and then gives the general reason why this is so. The explanation given for why models with the MoT can't use 2 "shooty" powers is "as models can only fire one weapon per Shooting phase" which is technically a false statement, as MCs can fire two weapons. The explanation given does not apply to MCs, as they can indeed fire 2 weapons, making them exempt from the rule about not taking 2 shooty powers.

So it seems to me that the rules regarding the MoT and using 2 "shooty" powers is, based on the explanation given in the codex, are for normal models, like CSM Sorcerors, who can only fire one weapon per the 40K rulebook. MCs, on the other hand, are allowed to fire 2 weapons, and can therefore take 2 "shooty" powers. Had the writers simply left it as something like "models with the MoT may attempt to use 2 powers per turn, except for psychic powers that count as firing a weapon" then I would have to agree that Tzeentch Demon Princes could not use 2 "shooty" powers. But the way it is worded leaves it open for them to do so.

Except that his codex entry says he may not (which is an exception to the MC rule apparently). So you are actually back around full circle by GW writing an specific exception to the general rule (that MC can shoot 2 weapons) and the entry under discussion which then makes a second exception to the first specific exception. Lovely.... End result is that, no he still may not use the same (shooty) psychic power in the same turn...

Beast wrote:Except that his codex entry says he may not (which is an exception to the MC rule apparently). So you are actually back around full circle by GW writing an specific exception to the general rule (that MC can shoot 2 weapons) and the entry under discussion which then makes a second exception to the first specific exception. Lovely.... End result is that, no he still may not use the same (shooty) psychic power in the same turn...

I agree. The Prince can't use the same shooty power twice, but may still use two different shooty powers.

Their explanation of why a model with the MoT can't use two shooty powers is basically saying that the MoT adheres to the general rule about models not being allowed to fire two weapons. MCs are an exception to the general rule in that they can fire two weapons. Thus they are an exception to the MoT rule by default.

In other words, the reason given for why models can't use two shooty powers is "as models can only fire one weapon per Shooting phase." CSM Sorcerors adhere to the general rule that models can only fire one weapon. They don't have any rules listed in their entry that overrides the general rule about shooting weapons. Thus they are limited to only one shooty power.

"As models can only fire one weapon per Shooting phase" is a false statement when it comes to MCs. They have specific rules that override this rule about shooting. The explanation given as to why models with the MoT can't fire two weapons is simply establishing that the MoT adheres to the general rule about shooting. Since MCs are an exception to the general rule to which the MoT adheres to, then they are by default an exception to the rule about not taking more than one shooty power.