Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I will play mech Eldar in an upcoming tournament.
HQ, Elite and Heavy Support are not negotiable, but the Troop section is.

Autarch w/ jetbike, laser lance, reaper launcher, mandiblaster - 155

5 Fire Dragons + 1 Exarch w/ dragons breath, crack shot - 113
5 Fire Dragons + 1 Exarch w/ dragons breath, crack shot - 113
5 Harlies w/ kiss (x5) + 1 Shadowseer w/ kiss - 162

5 Pathfinders - 120
5 Pathfinders - 120
3 Jetbikes w/ sc + 1 Warlock w/ jetbike, spear, destructor - 134
3 Jetbikes w/ sc + 1 Warlock w/ jetbike, spear, destructor - 134
3 Jetbikes w/ sc - 76

Falcon w/ shuricannon, scatterlaser, stones, holofield, vect engines - 205
Falcon w/ shuricannon, scatterlaser, stones, holofield, vect engines - 205
Falcon w/ shuricannon, scatterlaser, stones, holofield, vect engines - 205

Comments about the Troop section would be very welcome...

Alternative:

10 Storm Guardians w/ flamer (x2) + 1 Warlock w/ destructor - 242
Serpent w/ shuricannon (x2), stones, vect engines
10 Storm Guardians w/ flamer (x2) + 1 Warlock w/ destructor - 242
Serpent w/ shuricannon (x2), stones, vect engines
5 Pathfinders - 120

Um, got any Dire Avengers? I vote for 2x10 in Serpents.

If not, go with the bikes. The Storm Guard are less useful without a decent "hammer" squad. All you've got for that is 1x Harlies and your Autarch.

Speaking of which, if you're going to run Tri-Falcon, a second Harlie squad instead of one unit of Dragons will do you better. I'm speaking from experience here, having made exactly that switch between rounds of 'Ard Boyz, much to my benefit. If you do take the bikes as Troops, you've got a good amount of anti-tank already. Upping your assault capacity is a good idea.

And switching the Autarch's gun to fusion will help balance out having less Dragons, too.

Savnok, thanks for the hints.
My plan is to keep the enemy at arm's length and therefore I'll stay with 2 FD squads and 1 Harlie squad.

The basic problem is to fill the Troop slots in an effective manner.
Raider suggested two Pathfinder squads and a Seer Council on jetbikes. This sounds sweet...

Two Dire Avenger squads mounted in Serpents have the advantage that the army is fully mech and thus immune vs a drop pod army or an ass-cannon army of doom.

What do you think?

If the HQ section isn't negotiable, then why the discussion of the Seer Council?

Fortuned Council sounds like a good plan for VP denial too, although I wouldnt give up all my jetbikes to do that. They are still fast, VP denying, troops, and possibly tank busting. You can have 3 units of them instead of two units of pathfinders.

If you face assault cannon heavy armies and droppods I do not think taking Dire avengers is the answer. Their transport can still die easily and it leaves them in a terrible position to soak up firepower that kills them without saves.

If you aren't taking a second Harle unit, why not a unit of Shining Spears to run with your Autarch? You can still hang back quite a bit, but they give the option to blitz any unit that gets low on numbers. A fortuned unit of them soaks up a ton of firepower, much like your seer council, but can mean the death of some armies out there (like tau).

Storm guardians with no warlock + meltaguns instead of flamers is my vote.

Then use the extra points to get a destructor/spear jetbike squad.

Another option that people overlook at lot is storm guardians with a warlock with enhance and a singing spear. They have a lot of attacks and high initiative, and can kill a lot of things (including SM/Chaos dev squads) in assault when they have an autarch to back them up.

They're far from optimal, but I have seen them used to great effect enough times to not write off the option.

An additional HQ would be negotiable. Unfortunately, a Seer Council as follows is 428 pts and thus affords too many points as I have only 602 pts left:
Farseer w/ fortune, jetbike, spear - 118
6 Warlocks w/ jetbike (x6), enhance, embolden, destructor (x2) - 310

An alternative suggested by Keldrin could be Shining Spears:
2x5 Pathfinders – 240
4 Shining Spears + 1 Exarch w/ withdraw, skilled rider – 222
The remaining points could be spend to include either 2 Vypers (140 pts) or a Farseer w/ jetbike, fortune, spear (118 pts) who is fortuning the Spears.

The idea of taking Storm Guardians is still floating around. However, I prefer flamers as they have some killing potential vs. horde armies.

What do you think?

Seer councils on jetbikes are not very good anyway and will get worse with the edition change (helloe to fleeting basic troops).

You'd be better off taking a walking seer council for half the points and like flanking with them or something.

If it's between Vypers and a Farseer, take the Farseer. The Fortune is nice, plus with a spear he's a good medium-range tank hunter.

wuestenfux wrote:
Two Dire Avenger squads mounted in Serpents have the advantage that the army is fully mech and thus immune vs a drop pod army or an ass-cannon army of doom.

...and Lash, etc. This is exactly why I field few bikes in my Mech list (with Falcons nerfed, that may change by necessity, though). Also, it increases the number of tanks your opponent is faced with, making their targetting choices more difficult.

And I have to disagree with Longshot on the Storm Guardians. First of all, a non-infiltrator walking unit isn't great with the rest of your list (I think that's what you meant, Longshot- I didn't see you mention a Serpent for them). Secondly, their BS stinks, so using them plus a Warlock for tank-hunting isn't so good either. They're better with flamers when they do get used. Third, they run away.

All Jetbikes are more difficult to use properly now.

Calling a Seer Council on Jetbikes not a very good unit anyway is not something I'd want to stand by when it takes my entire army to kill 1 or 2.

Unlike other bikes, Tau can't own Eldar Jetbikes. Hurt a little bit more, but markerlight death doesn't affect them like it does other units.

Savnock wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
Two Dire Avenger squads mounted in Serpents have the advantage that the army is fully mech and thus immune vs a drop pod army or an ass-cannon army of doom.

...and Lash, etc. This is exactly why I field few bikes in my Mech list (with Falcons nerfed, that may change by necessity, though). Also, it increases the number of tanks your opponent is faced with, making their targetting choices more difficult.

In fact, with two DA squads in Serpents, the army would consist of 5 skimmers.
Thus the opponent will need a certain amount of S6 shooting weapons to deal with them, and the army is able to avoid certain very shooty units, say, deployed on a flank.
This army has indeed some flavor... The lash could only affect the Autarch (not sure if he can be targeted if he's not the closest enemy).

Yes the Autarch could be targeted. He can't join vehicle units, and IC's are all just units now (ala Fantasy).

Who'd care? Let him lash your autarch to death, in a list like this one if he's not going into a vehicle he's there to bring reserves on....so he should stay in reserve as long as possible. His ability still works.

Playing games with the rules makes all the difference in the world...

Stelek wrote:Yes the Autarch could be targeted. He can't join vehicle units, and IC's are all just units now (ala Fantasy).

Who'd care? Let him lash your autarch to death, in a list like this one if he's not going into a vehicle he's there to bring reserves on....so he should stay in reserve as long as possible. His ability still works.

Playing games with the rules makes all the difference in the world...

Is this your BS of the day Stelek?

I cannot speak for lash from the top of my head, but your comment is more generic than that. IC's are not just units, they arent in fantasy either unless they ride a monsterous creature or special rules say so.

Where does it say an IC can be freely targetted, let me give you a hint - its not in the rulebook.

I would be inclined to drop the Pathfinders to keep with the mobile theme.

You could try

Troops
3 Jetbikes w/ sc + 1 Warlock w/ jetbike, spear, destructor - 134pts
3 Jetbikes w/ sc + 1 Warlock w/ jetbike, spear, destructor - 134pts

FA
3 Shining Spears + Exarch with star lance, skilled rider and withdraw - 202pts

Vyper with 2 shuricannon - 60pts

Vyper with 2 shuricannon - 60pts

Total 1748pts

It has a nice ring to it and you maximise your mobile elements. Vypers are not bad when you look at what they do, 6 shots on a cheap disposable package. The trick is to hide them behind Falcons for the early part of the game, when the opponent has the firepower remaining to deal with them. Expose them too early and they die, expose therm late and the opponent cannot afford to target them and they can add value shooting against diminishing enemy assets.

Sorry thought you were talking about the 5th edition ruleset.

Can't keep all the threads separate. Stupid sinus infection.

Anyway, Pathfinders make no sense in this list. You have mobility and hide, then some ground sloggers who will eat all the shooting since they will be a target from turn 1?

Bad idea.

Heres why I suggested Pathfinders:

- They are very resilient being protected by range, good saves and intervening Skimmers, so they go with the point denial theme.

- They affect the game from turn one on, and in conjunction with Reaper Launcher Autarch and Falcons allow the army to play shooty. So you can force quite a few armys that are tough in close combat to take a walk.

- Their static shooting doesnt stop them from scoring. They can hold your own quarter or even infiltrate onto objectives. Also they can fleet or be redeployed by Falcons.

Compared to Avengers - Think about it like that: for 240 points you get 2 tough scoring ranger units and have your troopslots filled, while you only get one stripped down unit of Avengers plus nonscoring Serpent for 240 points.

Compared to bikes - Bikes are onehitwonders that struggle to hurt the opponent over multiple turns. With jetbike move, bikes do considerably less damage per points then Pathfinders and without hiding Jetbikes die pretty fast.

Finally its not either or. No one stops you from using Pathfinders and another troop choice in concert. Since terrain is limited, your chance for decent cover is best with a single unit of Pathfinders.



On a sidenote one of the most importent things might by the opponents you expect. Comin from the same area these are Marines and Marines and Marines and then an occasional Eldar. ^^

Skimmers limit your own fire, ya know.

I don't see them being very good at scoring until you've already won, as almost any unit at short range will blow pathfinders away.

I don't understand your point about jetbikes. If they're hidden, aren't they denying points and sniping? And taking objectives? Guess I'm confused on your concept of mobility and effectiveness. Who do Pathfinders scare again?

How do Skimmers limit my own fire?

My point is that hidden bikes do little damage. That can be ok if the opponent does even less damage in return, so I agree that bikes arent completely bad.

Well, lets not get into chat-mode and see what the others contribute.

You can't see under Skimmers anymore, right? So if the other guy can't see your pathfinders, you can't see him.

Raider wrote:Heres why I suggested Pathfinders:

Pathfinders are superb troops, however I wouldnt take them because:

1. Everything else is fully mobile, then you have one or two squads of dedicated footsloggers. Its just disjointed and soils my opinion of the list.

2. Pathfinders become an anchor for your army that you dont need.

3. They are alone, so they are easy pickings for enemy close combat troops. If the opponent had any deep strike reserves thaey nopw have a target, whjereras without they do not.


I have seen a Pathfinder and grav tank army before, and it didnt do as well as it looks on paper.

its a good list

Orlanth wrote:I would be inclined to drop the Pathfinders to keep with the mobile theme.

You could try

Troops
3 Jetbikes w/ sc + 1 Warlock w/ jetbike, spear, destructor - 134pts
3 Jetbikes w/ sc + 1 Warlock w/ jetbike, spear, destructor - 134pts

FA
3 Shining Spears + Exarch with star lance, skilled rider and withdraw - 202pts

Vyper with 2 shuricannon - 60pts

Vyper with 2 shuricannon - 60pts

Total 1748pts

Looks interesting. But Jetbikes are vulnerable to small arms fire, one loss then you have to make a morale check. However, if one keeps the army together, i.e., Jetbikes going with the Falcons, it can be a viable list. I'll playtest it...

In terms of Pathfinders, two units provide a solid troop choice.
One point that has been overlooked is the fact that Pathfinders, set up as infiltrators, can keep away enemy infiltrators from being too close to your Eldar tanks. Imagine infiltrating Chosen with plasma guns, rapid-firing at stationary Eldar tanks in the 1st round.

Orkyboss3000, what list do you mean?

For the remaining 600 pts, I'd go for a mixed style:

5 Pathfinders 120
9 DAs + 1 Exarch w/ bladestorm 147
Serpent w/ scatterlaser, stones, vect engine - 145
3 Shining Spears + 1 Exarch w/ withdraw, skilled rider - 187

Total: 1747 pts.

Pathfinders can occupy mission objects or block infiltrators, DAs can contribute to the army's fire power, and Spears can go with the Autarch vs. tougher units; withdraw helps to keep the squad alive.

Good choice. This will allow all types to make the most of terrain. Well, all but the Serpent, because it will compete with the 3 Falcons for first turn cover.

By the math a nonmoving Serpent has similar durablity to a nonmoving Falcon. So its propably best to expose the Serpepent most of the time, if theres too little cover for all tanks.

Finally I just had an idea: Couldnt one declare his Skimmers as "landed" during deployment? Thus they wont be destroyd on a 5 even without Vengines. Since no close combat attacks are to be expected this trick should have no drawback... Did I miss something?^^

This leads to the need for Vengines overall. My instinct (and a bit of math) tells me that you might do even better without Vengines on the Dragon-Falcons, saving you 40 points for more offensive power.

Reason is that by positioning you can trick the opponent into shooting mostly on the Harley-Falcon. After that Vengines statistically arent used too often and when they are used the equppid Skimmer still loses scoring status and thus is pretty much dead anyways.

For a stationary skimmer, an immobilization result will keep it alive, immobile but not destroyed.
Thus, vector engines are useless if the skimmer is stationary.

Dropping the vector engines for the FD Falcons will free 40 pts? Well, I could buy another Shining Spear, seems reasonable.