Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!

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**Joyboozer**

It's disturbing, makes it seem like they are a bunch of mental deficients operating out of a special workshop where everyone has to walk on eggshells or risk an episode.

**Cypher-xv**

I wish I could message him that it's not a small number just that some of us have concerns and he needs to stop assuming its a vocal minority. I won't because he'll think I'm attacking him personally. When really he's operating under false assumptions.

**Triszin**

Delayed UNtil February

Update #116

Nov 1, 2013
Big Progress Update
137 comments
30 likes

Hey everybody, sorry for not getting you more substantive details sooner, but we’ve been working to hammer out all the details and variables around the Robotech® RPG Tactics™ project, for you, our distributors, and ourselves.

First, not only is this Palladium Books’ very first Kickstarter, this is also our first venture into making a game like Robotech® RPG Tactics™. Our learning curve has been steep and this undertaking is massive, even with Ninja Division’s experience and handling of much of this.

Second, the scope of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ was expansive and demanding to begin with, and grew as the Kickstarter went on. The sheer number of different product SKUs, special figures, poses, components for the box game, the many expansion kits, and so on, has meant a tremendous amount of work and logistics. That’s okay, because we want this game line to be truly epic, but it has proven challenging for everyone involved.

Third, the consensus of everyone, Palladium Books to Ninja Division and Harmony Gold, has been that it is better to get this product right than to rush it.

Fourth, detail matters. As Palladium Books has stated before, we want the end product to be everything Robotech fans could want. And we have a pretty good idea of what that is, because a) we listen to you, and b) we are super-fans ourselves. This has actually added to Ninja Division’s work load, because we want these representations of the Robotech® mecha we all know and love to be as detailed and awesome as possible. When there were shortcuts Ninja Division could have taken or Palladium could have authorized, we agreed not to do so in order to give you a superior product.

For example, that has meant numerous additions and tweaks to sculpts, and additional cost and engineering considerations for mold-making and manufacturing. This has caused delays and doubled the cost of the molds, but Palladium is willing to make that sacrifice to give you the best product we can possibly make. No cutting corners if we can avoid it.

The ship date. At this point, we still do not have an exact release date, but it’s no longer possible for it to be in December, as we have not even gone into manufacturing yet. If I had to guess, I’d say February, 2014, though we’re working to try to make it sooner. Palladium Books and Ninja Division are looking to firm up details and dates, and we’ll provide them to you as we get them ourselves.

Is this delay disappointing? Of course, but this is worth doing right. Palladium has spent thousands of dollars on advertising stating the game is coming out in the Fall of 2013 and December 2013, so obviously, that was the plan. But as I said, when faced with sacrificing quality, we all agreed to take a step back and go with quality even if it meant delaying the release. Even our distributors, who are champing at the bit for this game just like you, agreed it is better to do Robotech® right than to rush it out for fast sales, or quick, personal gratification.
Here’s how things are unfolding:

1. Almost there. The design and layout work for the rule book, stat cards, packaging and accessories are all pretty much complete. They are the fast and easy part of manufacturing. It’s the final mold engineering and mold-making that has been taking some time to keep the details and features we know you’ll want. As we get close to finalizing that process, we approach the actual manufacturing. However, our earlier delays mean we face a glut of product in the pipeline for Christmas, and potentially further delays.

2. Manufacturing. How soon our job can get into manufacture (hopefully later this month) will determine how quickly we’ll get the finished product. Other factors include the Chinese New Year that closes down much of the manufacturing for a few weeks, and shipping to the USA port (another 4-6 weeks), then clearing Customs and then shipping to Palladium. The latter should go quickly (a week?).

3. USA: Once product is in Palladium’s hands, even with an efficient assembly line set up and additional help brought in, it will take some time to process, pick, pack and ship the 5,000+ Kickstarter orders and the many Kickstarter accessories and special items. Note: Kickstarter orders will ship before Palladium sends any product to distributors for retail distribution. We appreciate your support, and you will get the product before it goes to retail. And remember, MANY of the Kickstarter items will be in your hands months before the retail expansion packs are released in waves to retail. Enjoy.

4. EU & Overseas: We have made special arrangements to pull, pack and address your packages at the Palladium warehouse, and then ship them in bulk to an agent who will post them from within the EU. That should mean everyone in the EU will get shipped around the same time, but after packages are shipped in the USA.

We will update details and firmer dates as we learn them. Meanwhile, Palladium will continue to provide you with images of actual game pieces and the full production packages as we go along.

Our apologies for the longer than anticipated wait. The game pieces/models are gorgeous, the game is a fast, fun simulation of the Robotech® TV show, and this product will be worth it!

With Appreciation,
Kevin Siembieda, Publisher
November 1, 2013

**warboss**

Yup, we've been group hugging/crying for the last couple of pages about that. Doesn't hurt though to post the full update.

**Cypher-xv**

warboss wrote:
Yup, we've been group hugging/crying for the last couple of pages about that. Doesn't hurt though to post the full update.

So you read the mess over on the update comments section, because it's gone to 3 pages.

**warboss**

No... to be honest, I try to stay away from there as much as possible after all the unnecessary hurled insults thrown during the Max/Miriya debacle. I'll occasionally check the comments (usually the day an update comes out) but otherwise I try to stay away much like with the Palladium forums. People defending the indefensible pisses me off.

**Cypher-xv**

One of the game creators lost his cool and basically told the backers to GTFO if there not happy with the way things are going. All he did was prove what I've seen on the PB forums about PB employees insulting their customers.

**Forar**

I wandered through that mess. I believe he later mentioned that he wasn't really an employee, just someone involved in the beta testing, but considering how often in the last 7 months he's spoken with an 'official' voice, I think the damage is done there.

There are some who are disappointed, some who are truly angry, and some highly frustrating 'white knights/cult members' who are taking this (generally reasonable) frustration as some sort of personal affront.

I'm not going to apologize for being annoyed when a company spends months saying "hey, guys, it's cool, I know we've had issues in the past but we're totes cool this time" and then follow up with half a year of silence, platitudes, mixed signals and now finally a 'come to Jesus' moment where they admit what we've all been thinking for months now.

And sadly that may not be the last of the "big sorry we've got bad news" posts to come.

Like, I'm not surprised there are delays and overoptimistic estimates in place.

I am a bit disappointed that even with HG and NG involved, nobody managed to wrangle that gak in a bit.

**Joyboozer**

I'm predicting a very late delivery, after a retail release, that will be of poor quality because it was " rushed to meet the demands of backers"

**Andrewdrexler**

Amazing how quickly things change from what actually happened to a version that fits their preconceived notions about what is going to happen.

Some people have taken LEGITIMATE concerns and frustrations over the project (lack of communication, the cut and paste updates, etc) and have blown it up into the “worst KS ever” and used it as an excuse to vent about Palladium Books in general. It might be one thing if it was different people complaining, but it is the same group of 5 or 6 who have been nothing but critical of every aspect of this KS. Most of us just want more communication from the creators and updates that are not cut and pasted from last week. Heck, PB could get a lot of good will by just releasing a PDF of the rules and cards and most of us would be in hog heaven.

And more thing; the approximate delivery date for each pledge has ALWAYS been listed as December 2013. Despite wild over enthusiasm about an October delivery date shortly after release (that everyone scoffed at BTW), this project is not even LATE yet. It has been said time and time again that MOST kickstarters are late. This happens for a variety of reasons, but it is almost a built in feature of successful campaigns. Yes I know that Dwarven Forge was on time (since that is usually the example given), but it is in the VAST minority and the product is ENTIRELY different.

And I am NOT a member of the shadowy Palladium Book cabal who only allow good things to be said about PB on the internet. I don’t work for PB. I don’t even OWN anything PB has published in the past 20 years. I just like the idea of having Robotech figures to paint and game with.

**Azazelx**

Cypher-xv wrote:
One of the game creators lost his cool and basically told the backers to GTFO if there not happy with the way things are going. All he did was prove what I've seen on the PB forums about PB employees insulting their customers.

Links? I paid to see the drama, after all...

**Joyboozer**

It's in the comments for the latest update.

**Evil_Toast**

Azazelx wrote:
Cypher-xv wrote:
One of the game creators lost his cool and basically told the backers to GTFO if there not happy with the way things are going. All he did was prove what I've seen on the PB forums about PB employees insulting their customers.

Links? I paid to see the drama, after all...

It all kicks off on the second page, look for WilhelmRochRedDuke posts.

**Cypher-xv**

I don't think the comments section for an update has ever gone this long. Folks are still pissed at PB for lack of transperancy and the emotional outburst. The worst part is that backers who hardly posted are now speaking up about the issues with PB.

Just like AndrewDrexler many of us here are happy to finally get robo minis to game with. I agree that some who have an axe to grind with PB are using it to rage at PB. But considering their past record with being on time and the misinformation/lying in the updates, you really can't blame them. I haven't had a PB book since the early 90's. All the info about PB didn't come to light (for me at least) till after the ks was over. I have to say I'm very disappointed with the way events have unfolded. It's not the delay that bothers me and many backers. It's that many feel like PB has mis lead us for some time now. That coupled by the fact that their representative (not employee) went off on the people that made all this possible with our financial support. An when this individual did say sorry it seemed forced and not sincere.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would be disappointed if HG came out with another SC movie and a live action robo film before RRT was out.

**NTRabbit**

Andrewdrexler wrote:
And more thing; the approximate delivery date for each pledge has ALWAYS been listed as December 2013. Despite wild over enthusiasm about an October delivery date shortly after release (that everyone scoffed at BTW), this project is not even LATE yet.

They haven't even finished the rulebook layout, or finalised the minis, despite repeatedly telling us they were almost done in every update since May. In order for this project to not be late it needed to begin manufacturing in October - and they just told us manufacturing won't even start before Chinese New Years. The project is officially late, and they've officially been lying to us since the end of the funding period. I don't have an axe to grind, I didn't even know who Palladium Books were or what their reputation was until well after I'd pledged, and was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for months afterwards.

Compare to Deadzone, which ran at the same time, and actually finished 10 days later, with the same December delivery. They had betas of the rules up early. They had a steady stream of updates indicating actual progress and setbacks. They finalised and entered manufacturing on time, and now they're going to deliver in the UK in December as promised, with RoW Dec/Jan. They clearly explained that stretch items would come in a later production run and shipment. They have had some criticism, some doubts over quality, and in their own recent big update explained that some things had been pushed back due to issues with hard plastic moulds, but people get freebies now and hard plastic later if it works. Mixed response, but they're on time and have never stopped communicating.

**Cypher-xv**

I know this game will be a success, I just wonder how the next two will go? I figure it should run smoothly compared to this one. An this time the updates will have more meaning than the usual cut an paste job as well as being honest with their backers. My concern is that Kevin will still see PB as a books only company and not a game company.

**rigeld2**

If PB has their hands in the "next two" they'll end up exactly the same as this one.
The game may be a success, but if so it'll be in spite of Kevin's involvement instead of because of it.

**Forar**

On one hand, I'd hope the later ones go better as they'll hopefully have learned from this experience. Smoothed over the rough edges; more ducks in a row before going to campaign, better idea of how long everything takes, etc, etc, etc.

On the other hand, the same can be said of Palladium's books themselves, and they've remained absurdly out of touch with the realities of their own release schedule for decades.

As noted, I'd hoped having other groups involved would help keep them realistic, but apparently I was wrong in that assessment. Not to mention that, completely anecdotally, the first and third series seem to garner the most attention and love. There are certainly SC fans out there, but I wouldn't count them in nearly the same numbers.

Not to mention that they're staying to scale, so most of the SC figures will be smaller than their Macross counterparts, which could help keep costs down for them and backers alike, but it'll depend on the route they take with the game as well.

Really interested on how they plan to deal with itty bitty cyclones and whatnot, but at this rate it'll be 2016 before we find that out.

I also hope they do all three series in a row. They've said they want to do a Rifts Tactics as well, and interjecting that into the mix could push the final series back by 1-2 years or more.

Also, I've gotta say, I'm kind of growing tired of hearing "it's delayed because we totally want to give you the best stuff evar!" from campaigns. I disagree; projects seem to often be delayed because someone seems to have stuffed up the timeline and it's snowballing into an avalanche of issues.

Expediency shouldn't come at the cost of quality, but when we're getting "2-3 weeks" as an estimate just to get feedback on sculpts...

**Cypher-xv**

I thought the same about that as well, that someone screwed up and it's turned into an avalanche. What will get to me is if the quality is poor and the "we delayed this for QC purposes" was an excuse to buy PB more time to play catch up.

Someone brought up chaos earth. What happened there? I'd ask on the ks but I'm afraid it'll cause another outburst insulting PB customers.

**Forar**

Apologies for the cross post, but I finally found it! The illusive "45 days" quote!

Why should you care?

The Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Kickstarter helps Palladium to fund the launch of a compelling and expanding game line designed specifically for Robotech® fans and gamers.

Six months of product development has produced nearly two dozen gorgeous sculptures (with more to come), a mountain of artwork, and game rules that have been play-tested by more than 100 Robotech fans and gamers to ensure we make Robotech® RPG Tactics™ everything you could want.

Once the Kickstarter reaches our funding goal, we have a host of fantastic upgrades, additional game pieces and new unit add-ons to unlock! Every Destroid. More Zentraedi mecha. More fun!

And because so much is DONE, this project should go into manufacturing within 45 days after the Kickstarter! That’s fast.

Their April release announcement

Heh, just checked their weekly updates;

It wasn't until the September 26th update that they officially changed the target from "Fall" to "December", "January" on October 12th, and "February (tentative) as of November 1st.
So in 5 weeks the release date moved 2 months. We're actually going backwards at this point.

If this pattern holds, we'll be at "March/April" by the end of the month.

**Cypher-xv**

What really sucks is that PB pissed away thousands of backer or on house money that could have been used for something else like modern book making equipment.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's also disappointing that the naysayers were right about PB folks insulting the their fans.

**warboss**

Cypher-xv wrote:
What really sucks is that PB pissed away thousands of backer or on house money that could have been used for something else like modern book making equipment.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's also disappointing that the naysayers were right about PB folks insulting the their fans.

Pfft... only the weak need more than elmers and a sharpened pair of scissors to layout a book!

I can imaginge the excitement around the office and Kevin would start up the ol' Gutenberg press and stoke the coals to warm the glue for a new title. Yes, I know they've finally moved onto digital publishing/layout in 2006 but the fact that they were still doing that in 2006 outside of a third world nation without running water or consistent electricity is amusing. Although.. from some reports, the around Palladium (Detroit) might actually meet those requirements.

**Cypher-xv**

I left PB a post that I hope they listen to.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/648924#comments

**warboss**

Palladium doesn't care. They've flat out said in the past (about the Robotech project specifically before the KS) that they only respond to positive feedback. I too hoped that they'd turn over a new leaf going into a new genre but they seem intent on repeating not only their own tried and true mistakes over and over again but are adopting more modern KS minis specific mistakes made by other companies. Frankly, at this point I fully expect a Mantic-style problem when they get the minis from China and they get Men At Arms style plastic blobs due to bad undercuts due to not sending someone to oversee the production personally.

**Talizvar**

My best guess: They made a business decision to go with smaller dies = less cost + longer production time.

Each element would have a known time to produce.
The only business decision is to decide how much product to get on each die.
It completely depends on how much production time means to you.

If I was a betting man I would say they had sticker shock over the initial efficient design that got sent to management for a proper production die.
Say, probably half that number was determined as enough for the die and it is half as big and possibly half as much.
Suddenly though, production time takes twice as long and BINGO that gets us from late December into February (easy math).

It also is harder to tune larger dies to deliver consistent good product and not get short shots or uneven heating/cooling in the die driving up more cost.
Meeting a deadline has proven to be a low priority to Palladium historically so going cheaper with longer production times was a no brainer.

My best guess for something where voodoo and black magic only applies to the design process, production is a pretty straight forward affair.

Coming from an extensive manufacturing background: not having a handle on the actual production timeline shows poor planning or an inability to face or say the truth, I have found few other reasons other than that.

Plus:

An hour a day by one employee giving reasonable progress reports would go a long way at keeping the wolves at bay and customer involvement.
A picture of a machined die would cause an "oohh, ahhhh!": just throw a bone.

**Cypher-xv**

I've been married for several years now, and the only reason I still am and not divorced like many of my friends is because I eventually learned to listen. Is it a guarantee that I'll stay married, no. But listing to the voice of others even if unpleasant can bring about positive change.

It would also explain why he's now single. This is not meant as a cheap blow. This is just to exemplify why PB is still stuck chasing their tail. A refusal or unwillingness to take the advise or opinion of others.

@warboss: It's a shame really. PB could be so much more if they changed that attitude.

**Kendachi**

Why does anyone think a kickstarter after this, for ANYTHING mind you, would go any different?

Kevin's been at this for 30 years, he's not gonna change now.

**Talizvar**

Kendachi wrote:
Why does anyone think a kickstarter after this, for ANYTHING mind you, would go any different?
Kevin's been at this for 30 years, he's not gonna change now.

Hope springs eternal?
The hope that someone other than a salesman is in charge?

We have no other choice if we want a Robotech game or we are using printed cutouts or hunting down old tiny models.

Kevin is now in an age that everything is quotable unlike early in his career.
I personally heard him say "What do you want: the best product or on time?"
They do not appear mutually inclusive to him.

I really pray it turns out to be the "best product" to justify being cavalier with the ship dates..

**Cypher-xv**

Kendachi wrote:
Why does anyone think a kickstarter after this, for ANYTHING mind you, would go any different?

Kevin's been at this for 30 years, he's not gonna change now.

Great! That means I wasted my time posting this.

The delay isn't what bothers me. It's the fact that the naysayers were right about PB employees or people associated with PB, when it comes to how they treat their fans. That is something that I did not want to believe. Unfortunately the weekends events have soured my perception of PB, ND. What brought this to my attention was that fact that several fans have this for their sig:
"I will boycott any books written by posters who make a sport of insulting other posters, insulting your customers is a poor way to earn sales".
That tells me as a customer that PB employees do go out insulting their fans on other forums. Maybe not to their face but indirectly.
Also it's deplorable that PB pissed away either backer money or PB money for what now seems like false advertising for RRT.

Followed by:

@PB: Please understand it's not a vocal few that feel this way. That has been made evident by the posts backers have left on this update alone. I'm not asking for free stuff or an apology just please do a better job informing us about progress made or lack there of. We'er all adults here and the wording of past updates makes it seem like you have a low opinion of our intelligence. Many see past the fanboiesm in your posts. It's insulting that you think you can pull these shenanigans time after time. This sort of attitude may have worked for the last 30yrs, but you now have the miniatures crowd to contend with. If my years of following GW has taught me anything is that we'er a vocal bunch. I thank you for listing to my rant and hope you take it as a fan who wants nothing but the best for PB/ND and RRT.
Thank you

**Forar**

A possibly naive hope that having HG cracking the whip and Ninja Division supposedly doing a lot of the heavy lifting might keep them remotely on track? Having a vested interest in this project going as well as possible since they presumably wish to curry the favour (and millions of dollars) from tens of thousands of backers, collectors and players over the coming years?

One only needs to scroll back to the early pages of this thread to see that people expressed concern and wariness repeatedly over those exact points, but were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Apparently it wasn't deserved after all. Sure, one can go on a "fool me once..." stance and feel smugly superior to those who are apparently worse at pattern recognition, but at the end of the day was it really so bad that people were willing to give them a second chance?

By that measure, I still think they are more worthy of whatever mockery and scorn they might get for failing yet again that we should heaps of eye rolling at those willing to take a risk based on a property they loved, even despite those misgivings.

Not that I feel you're entirely wrong Kendachi, I think we see eye to eye on many aspects of this campaign, and I agree with the need to start seeing some rules, some stat cards, some characters, *something* to indicate that this project isn't just wallowing in development hell.

I just don't think it's entirely fair to blame backers for believing that, complicated as a multi-company/licensing situation can be, that it was impossible for it all to work out at least vaguely as lain out.

Remember, they were going to be starting up manufacturing within 45 days of the campaign ending.

... :-(