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Okay, this list is designed to be fast and aggressive, as befitting pirates, with a strong emphasis on HTH combat. Everything is mounted either on a bike or in a tank, and the idea is to use the various units together in conjunction using short-ranged shooting followed up by HTH combat. So, for example, a strike against the heart of an enemy army would involve the dragons, tanks, bikes, and avengers softening up some units, followed up immediately by hth from the bikes to finish off the survivors, then consolidating into nearby enemy squads, tying them up, or behind cover out of LOS. The following turn, the harlequins would join in as well.

Basically, it is supposed to be about half way between a Mech Eldar list and a Siam-Hann jetbike army. The Autarch will go with the Guardian jetbikes, which get a HTH boost from their warlock, while the Farseer stays close to lend a hand with his powers. The combined punch between the Guardian Jetbikes lead by the autarch and the shining spears should be extremely deadly in HTH combat.

This army is about 2/3rds built at this point, but I wanted to see what others think before I finish assembling it and begin the painting process. Note: this army is not designed with any rumored 5th edition changes in mind. I'll worry about that after 5th edition is released.

Eldar Army (2000 Points)
Model Count: 45 Vehicle Count: 6

Headquarters (1):
Autarch with Eldar Jetbike and Laser Lance. (120 Points)

Headquarters (1):
Farseer with Jetbike, Singing Spear, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Guide. (158 Points)

Elites (10):
10 Fire Dragons with Fusion Guns and Meltabombs. (160 Points)
Waveserpent Transport with Shuriken Cannon, Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines, and Spirit Stone. (140 Points)

Elites (6):
Harlequin Troupe (6) with Shuriken Pistols and Harlequin's Kiss. (132 Points)

Elites (6):
6 Fire Dragons with Fusion Guns and Meltabombs. (96 Points)

Troops (7):
Guardian Jetbike Squad with 6 Guardian Jetbikes, two upgraded to Shuriken Cannons, and one Warlock on Jetbike with Singing Spear and Enhance. (215 Points)

Troops (10):
9 Dire Avengers with Avenger Shuriken Catapult, and 1 Exarch with 2 Avenger Shuriken Catapults, and Bladestorm (152 Points)
Waveserpent Transport with Shuriken Cannon, Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines, and Spirit Stone. (140 Points)

Fast Attack (4):
Shining Spears squad with 4 Shining Spears, one upgraded to Exarch with Star Lance and Skilled Rider. (177 Points)

Fast Attack:
Vyper Grav-Vehicle with Shuirken Cannon and Shuriken Cannon. (60 Points)

Fast Attack:
Vyper Grav-Vehicle with Shuirken Cannon and Shuriken Cannon. (60 Points)

Heavy Support:
Falcon Grav-Tank with Pulse Laser, Shuirken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field, Vectored Engines, and Spirit Stone. (195 Points)

Heavy Support:
Falcon Grav-Tank with Pulse Laser, Shuirken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field, Vectored Engines, and Spirit Stone. (195 Points)

Let me know what you think.

The army looks really good, no flaws in there.
I found that an FD Exarch with dragon breath is worth the points.

The two wave serpent units are relatively worthless. The transports will be blown away, then you're walking. DA usually fire once then die. Fire Dragons with Meltabombs? I've never even considered it, they come out, pop a tank, and usually die. Large squads of them means half your shots are wasted on tanks, and marine players will see to it they spend the game on your side of the board. 10 Fusion Gun shots makes you a large target for marine players. You can still only kill 1 MC with the unit before you bite the dust.

Shining Spears don't need a star lance exarch, you shouldn't be going into characters with the unit. Spears also need withdraw, not skilled rider, as the first skill they should buy.

6 man guardian jetbike units are unwieldy. Units of 3 work best.

Vypers in that configuration can't stand off (24" max range) and will just get shot down. Either go big (lots of Vypers, lots of upgrades), or just keep in mind they're only useful as objective grabbers. Is that worth 120 points?

I prefer Scatter lasers on my Falcons, having to be 24" away makes it very difficult to get side shots on enemy tanks on turn 1. Falcons don't usually need VE, people tend to stun then ignore them. Armies that you need VE for, will probably shoot you down anyway by sheer weight of fire (IG, Tau).

For 2000 points, it's not bad per se, but it isn't optimized by any means. If this is intended for tournament play, it's not a winning army. For friendly play, you shouldn't get any complaints--it's got enough to be fun but it's very beatable. Not sure which you are going for.

I disagree with every one of Stelek's points for what I believe to be self-apparent reasons.

Your list is well-balanced and will stand an excellent chance against a wide variety of opponents. My first thought, however, was, "Why no mandiblasters on the Autarch?" Unless it was to save points (a poor place to do so IMO)...

Well, he can play me anytime at MG with any army I have and see for himself. Having alot of everything isn't what I'd call balanced, I'd call it 'battleforce' special. Since he hasn't said if it's for fun or competitive play, it's hard to say more.

Btw, disagreement is fine--not saying why is kinda pointless in a thread like this, doesn't help anyone get better at making lists.

its a good list no major flaws

Overall, a really good list.

I have a couple minor tweaks that will make it stronger. Take 'em or leave 'em, but I play a list very similar to what you have here- and I've learned many of these things through "Damn I wish I had chosen X" moments.

Mandiblasters go on the Autarch. This will keep your IC alive longer.

Replace Enhance with Embolden on the jetbike warlock. The minor combat advantage of Enhance is less useful than not running when they get lost two models. Bikes are not great in CC anyways.

And surprisingly, I must agree with Stelek- split the bikes into two units. There are several good reasons for this:
1. Split your fire. Always a good thing, especially when you may have to use the Warlock's spear against a vehicle while the rest of the unit twiddles their thumbs.
2. You can use the smaller unit as a sacrificial or bait unit if you must.
3. It makes them easier to hide while using JSJ movement.

I disagree with Stelek about the Vypers- the Vypers are great. Boost them up flanks to take out Landspeeders, threaten transports and rear armor, etc. They will complement the rest of your mobile firepower well. Range is simply not that important for their function in this list, Stelek. There are plenty of other medium-range threats for the enemy to shoot at. Better Vypers moving fast get shot at than the bikes.

And yes, scatter lasers would be better on the Falcons (more shots always better, and the range is often useful), but you seem to be very tight for points here. If something has to go, better it be two BS3 shots per round than boots on the ground.

Speaking of which, the Star Lance is indeed a good thing to trim to save points. but if one has the points, it makes attacking TMC and taking potshots at vehicles while inbound a lot easier. You have both those things very well handled already, so the Star Lance should go so that Mandiblasters etc. can be bought.

Nice concept, and it will indeed be fun to play against- in either the form you have it in, or slightly trimmed to make it a bit more killer. Splitting the bikes is your most important change, really.

While normally I would agree with Savnock about the bike squads, I must disagree in this context.

Remember he's got shining spears in there, Savnock. The Guardian jetbikes go a long way to making them last much longer, and holding the unit you charged in place while the Shining Spears use their Hit & Run. These two units will work great in tandem, and compliment each other nicely. While embolden is indeed a good buy (and will save you points) the enhance actually makes them considerably better in assault; going first against 90% of opponents is a greater advantage than you think. That said, it really depends on what role the OP had in mind for them.

Along a similar vein of thought, I would strongly urge you NOT to split the bike unit up. Having six of them means you'll be taking less morale checks than if you had two squads, and you won't have to spend on two warlocks to keep both squads effective. IMO it's either 3-bike throwaway squads with a single SC, or a beefed-up squad like we see here. Really, I think the beefed-up option is the way to go in this case. It makes buying Embolden less of a priority (although once again it's a straightforward choice; do you want them to be durable or more killy? Embolden may be the better way to go here), allowing the squad to be more killy. But splitting them up? Certainly not.

Colonel, I see your (well explained) point, but must still disagree.

I use Spears in a similar role, in a very similar list. I have used them alongside 7 bikes, too. And I used the bikes to aid the Spears in combat. But they mostly did so as a (relative) tarpit/LOS blocker by keeping the enemy in CC into their own CC phase, while the Spears hit and run. And I found that splitting units and taking Embolden made them more effective in this role too. Sure, after the Spears run the jetbikes die in the enemy CC phase- and then the Spears hit the enemy again. The jetbikes are dead meat anyways. Better to have two squads to divide casualties among.

As for the split, you will be taking almost as many checks anyways. Better to have the slightly larger unit be better at taking those checks- or better yet, be able to JSJ-hide, and not have to take them at all.

And I'm afraid jetbike squads are _never_ going to be very killy, even with Enhance. They have a low number of low S attacks. They can, however, soak punishment fairly well for Eldar. Better to take Embolden and make them better at that- they make a more functional anvil for the Spears that way.

Also, splitting them still makes them able to engage separate foes when they're i n shooty mode before all the in-close headsmashing stuff starts. And with a Warlock wielding a decent anti-tank weapon mixed among anti-infantry shooters, it's nice to be able to hit different targets.

Fair enough...but what does he intend to use them for? Enemy consolidation after wiping your puny bikes is trouble. In a shooty role, of course it makes more sense to split the squads. And if you fortune your jetbikes and doom your target, the spear+jetbike charge should come close to clearing any MEQ squad and the jetbikes hold them in place while nearly invicible, and the smartly-engaged spears receive minimal punishment due to bikes drawing attacks away. And does he have room for a second warlock?

Once again, it comes down to throwaway shooty or tarpit assault unit...

I appreciate the feedback guys, there have been some really good suggestions here.

The list is meant to be a friendly list, and while I will definitely take it to tournaments as well, and while I want it to be competitive, it's primarily designed to be fun for me to play with and fit with the way I like to play and follow a pirate theme.

I think losing the star lance is a great place to save points, probably for mandiblasters for the autarch, and I think I can also save points in the guardian jetbike squad by removing the shuriken cannons, since I never plan on using that unit as a JSJ unit. I definitely need to put withdrawal on the spears. The guardian jetbikes are a hth unit to back up the spears and autarch, so I think you guys have made excellent arguments for both enhance and embolden. I think I can get away with taking enhance instead of embolden by placing the farseer with the guardian jetbikes and the autarch with the shining spears. That will make both jetbike units Ld10 and allow the autarch to use withdraw as well.

I think I also need to switch out guide for doom. That way, I can fortune the guardian jetbikes, have the spears and the jetbikes assault a doomed target, then consolidate everyone into a fresh target, benefitting from fortune in my opponent's assault phase as well, then at the end of my opponent's assault phase, withdraw the spears and autarch for a fresh assault on my next turn.

Whoah- didn't even notice the lack of Withdrawal on the Spears. Good idea and good catch to add that.

As for Fortune, it should really be on the Spears rather than the bikes.

And for 20 points, the shuricannons are really worth it. I mean, using the bikes as a CC unit isn't a great idea- but maybe your mileage will vary from mine. After trying them out the CC way, you may want to consider tacking those cannons back on. Go magnets!

I look forward to hearing how this list plays.

Savnock wrote:And for 20 points, the shuricannons are really worth it.

Well, at the close ranges I'll be using the bikes it's just one extra shot, and with the loss of twin-liking, it probably comes out to about the same lethality.

Savnock wrote:And for 20 points, the shuricannons are really worth it. I mean, using the bikes as a CC unit isn't a great idea.

Think of it more as short-range shooting followed by assault. It's not just the HTH, it's the devastating close range volley of firepower followed up by HTH combat. It's the same idea I used with my old speed freaks. I would hit an enemy squad with enough firepower to bring it down to two or three models, then charge in to finish it off. You never charge fresh squads.