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I've seen some pretty good (and many IMO obvious) ideas thrown around about how to increase the 40k player base and consumer loyalty (and hence revenue), but I haven't seen this type of discussion at all. Of course, GW has to have thought of many, if not all, of the ideas we've come up with here, plus many more. They are, after all, a real business no matter how foolish some of their decisions might seem to us, so I'd like to get some ideas thrown around as to why GW decided NOT to implement something that seemed very obvious to so many internet tough-guys. So, in your opinion, why hasn't GW:

1. Implemented some sort of "referee" system that qualified a small group of hand-picked players to put together FAQ's (reviewed by GW before publishing) on a regular basis in exchange for GW product. I think many, many players would jump at such an opportunity.

2. Put out some sort of gateway non-video game to draw players in, like a relatively cheap Dawn of War skirmish game.

3. Lowered prices, because the prices their products are currently set at absolutely can't be the prices that maximize profit, can they?

4. Pieced together some sort of free magazine to expose their product.

These are just some of the ideas that seem like sound ways to both make GW more money and make the players happier, that we aren't currently seeing applied. Again, why do you think GW stays away from these, since they've surely thought of them, as harshly as people on here criticize them.

If you would like to discuss another idea that seems obvious, feel free to add it.

1) I honestly imagine that FAQ's have been on the design teams to do list for years. The effort it would take to organize such a commitee would probably be greater than simply reading mail to rulezboys and issuing a FAQ every month or so.

2) Skirmish games are harder to work as a gateway then you may think. BFSP was a huge success, partly because it actually included two small armies, not merely a skirmish like Macragge. I'd imagine that 5th edition will include ~20 marines and ~40 orks (like 2nd ed, natch), all slightly less detailed but still ok. Why not release it stand alone? because 40k rests on three things: models, fluff, and rules. A skirmish game provides at most two of those, and the cheaper the game, the worse the models. To keep the fluff, the skirmish would have to use factions from 40k (not necormunda gangs or inquisitor retinues). And the rules would have to be 25-40% of 40k, making it silly not to simply release a playable box game.

3) Not having the data, we can't say what the ideal price point for GW is. Based on internet complaining, nobody has bought GW product since (fill in time period here), but folks still seem to buy it. I contend that price isn't as big a barrier as other things. At most, we'd be talking a 10-20% drop, which can't signifigantly alter behaviour that much. Keep in mind, GW is publicly traded, which means their board probably has some business savvy, and can find a price point. Additionally, as bleak as it sounds, GW is in no way expensive as miniature games go.

4) I believe Black Gobbo is that, but even a quarterly mag made available at shops would be an interesting idea.

I'm not saying these ideas are bad, I'm saying I think there probably are legitimate business reasons why they haven't been implemented.

1) I totally agree here. I think GW has many ways of getting good players to do the testing for free basicly. One method would be to offer any GT player that scores in the top 20 to join an exclusive club where they could send in ideas and play test various armies. Top GT players are probably the best source of reliable gamers that could offer sound advice.

========================================

I don't agree 100% on the other points you make.

2) GW has tried various electronic media to create awareness of it's games. Dawn of War is very popular. But I do agree that they could do far more in the area of advertising. People have wanted a 40k movie for years now...

3) GW is a public company with it's suit and tie accountants. I would be willing to bet that their prices do return them the greatest profit.

4) They've produced quite a few magazines. I think White Dwarf has proven to be very effective. And it's been a better option than free magazines for them.

~Logic

1. The studio does use outside playtesters. I don't know if they're involved in FAQs or not. Remember that even if you don't like the army balance, it doesn't mean the playtesters are doing a bad job. They just provide the data and opinions. It's up the to the designers to interpret it.

2. I totally agree...a 40K skirmish game would be perfect. I understand what they're doing with BfM, but I'd rather see a full, separate system (although obviously related and using the same miniatures). It could be that GW is worried about players gravitating to the skirmish game over regular 40K.

3. They don't want to erode their margins, and I can't say I blame them. GW stuff has always been pricey...I remember people complaining about prices back in the RT days. IMO, the issue is more whether customers feel like they're getting their money's worth in the hobby, which is another issue.

4. They'd pay for this free mag how? Publishing is very expensive and labor-intensive. The only way to make it free is to sell outside advertising (thus defeating the purpose of the magazine as a catalog).

1. Implemented some sort of "referee" system that qualified a small group of hand-picked players to put together FAQ's (reviewed by GW before publishing) on a regular basis in exchange for GW product. I think many, many players would jump at such an opportunity.
****I agree. This is a real burr in vet gamer’s butts. Note this is how EPIC lists and queries are made. Efforts at forming a committee could be avoided simply-have the game designer read through the Adepticon, Yak’s, Warseer’s or some compendium. Make changes where they think is appropriate. Post with a thanks to that crew.

2. Put out some sort of gateway non-video game to draw players in, like a relatively cheap Dawn of War skirmish game.
***I don’t think that would be especially efficacious. DOW is already out there.

3. Lowered prices, because the prices their products are currently set at absolutely can't be the prices that maximize profit, can they?
***While I think this would be prudent, I can understand their price point view. But if you’re going to charge Jaguar prices, you need to provide a Jaguar product.

4. Pieced together some sort of free magazine to expose their product.
****They already do. Its called WHITE DWARF…

jfrazell wrote:4. Pieced together some sort of free magazine to expose their product.
****They already do. Its called WHITE DWARF…

Free my ass...

1. They don't need to offer loot in return for FAQs. Forums like Dakka and show committees like Adepticon already produce detailed and well researched FAQs, often with answers, that GW could simply lift, rewrite a bit (and correct the answers if required) and publish.

2. Gateway non-video game. Surely that is what Battle For Macragge is.

LoTR was also supposed to be a gateway game but it failed because the fluff is so different.

3. One has to assume that GW -- who are in possession of all the sales data we lack -- have set prices at the best balance of market clearing rate vs their costs.

4. They already put out WD and have their shops for exposure. No newsagent would carry a free mag. A better idea would be a web site with community forums and so on.

FearPeteySodes wrote:Free my ass...

You go into your local store, glance through it looking (in vain) for articles worth reading, then you put it back on the shelf. How is this process not free?

One of GW's biggest corporate flaws (of which it has a few) is that the more a workers job description requires them to interact with customers / joe public / real people the lower they are on the GW corporate food chain. Progression in GW can be measured by how far away you are from the people who pay for everything, the customers.

Polonius wrote:3) ...At most, we'd be talking a 10-20% drop, which can't signifigantly alter behaviour that much. Keep in mind, GW is publicly traded, which means their board probably has some business savvy, and can find a price point. Additionally, as bleak as it sounds, GW is in no way expensive as miniature games go.

Some may poo-poo a 10-20% drop as insignificant or not affecting sales much, but I say if you combine that with online retailers standard 20% off (like the warstore and others), and that amounts to 30-40% off current prices. I'd say Neal would see a signficant hike in sales, and thus GW will get a hike in product orders.

I tell you this: If that happens, Neal will be getting a HUGE order from me. $90 battleforce now for $54? I'll take 2. Or 2 baneblades. How about the Russ squadron for $54? Thats $18 a tank.

Better yet, I'll take that $175 megaforce for $105. Add free shipping and even more of a bonus.

I think a 40k movie would be a horrible decision. Any costs would far outweigh the potential recruiting factor. There is almost no way anybody except for little kids and already fans of 40k would go and watch it.

snorkle wrote:I think a 40k movie would be a horrible decision. Any costs would far outweigh the potential recruiting factor. There is almost no way anybody except for little kids and already fans of 40k would go and watch it.

You hold your tongue!

A 40k movie would be the sh1t. So what if theres like 3% chance of it actually being good if actually made. Im willing to emotionally invest.

I'm not saying it might not be good. I'm saying that only fans of 40k and little kids who like that stuff anyways would want to see it and GW wouldn't get more players.

FearPeteySodes wrote:

jfrazell wrote:4. Pieced together some sort of free magazine to expose their product.
****They already do. Its called WHITE DWARF…

Free my ass...

Exactly. Its a bit of marketing genius. Make a catalog and charge people to get it.

Well WD used to be a little bit more than a catalog, but now you are 100% right. Plus I don't even have the option to browse through it at my local store. They have all the new WDs in plastic covers.

I would go to a 40K movie for the laughs.

Yes but once again you're already a fan of 40k so GW wouldn't have made a real increase in revenue with your purchased ticket. What GW needs is something that will appeal to people who wouldn't normally be interested in a wargame, but could be brought in through something more mainstream. DOW did it's part. Now my suggestion would be a boardgame sort of thing for people who like games but aren't necessarily video-gamers.

Polonius wrote:

I'm not saying these ideas are bad, I'm saying I think there probably are legitimate business reasons why they haven't been implemented.

Yes. As stated, I created this thread to discuss these reasons, although that's not what's happening in the thread.

Also, making a catalog and charging money for the catalog is probably the poorest marketing scheme I've ever seen as implemented for a hobby not generally accepted or understood.

Sorry. My main suggestions would be
1. to bring WD back to the old standard.
2. Bring back the summer campaigns.
3. A new game to bring new gamers into gw's fold(boardgame?,...)

Someone has to give me a business case for why the FAQ's are not updated, vs. the annoyance level this has with vet gamers.

Again, they are charging Mercedes prices, but not providing Mercedes service in this regard.

I think GW avoids FAQs because they just don't want to deal with the inevitable criticism. It's easier to draw fire for not doing something than draw fire for doing something, after all.

FearPeteySodes wrote:Free my ass...

Wow.
Now, THERE is a line that would be quite amusing if taken out of context and inserted into someone's sig.

*ahem*


Eric

Good catch MagickalMemories. You have a twisted mind

You baztid

Thinking about my ass is expected though and ive come to terms with its awesomeness.

snorkle wrote:Now my suggestion would be a boardgame sort of thing for people who like games but aren't necessarily video-gamers.

Now I like that idea. Maybe they could re-release Space Hulk and release it more mainstream. The models don't have to be awesome they can just be old terminators and nids. Include a little pamphlet advertising 40K in the box and not only are you making a sale you're getting some advertising out there.

I have a plot for a 40k movie.

Marines vs. Tyranids. I mean, really, does it need to be more? If it looks cool on the screen, I'd pay to go see marines blaze away with bolters and flamers. Maybe the stand of the Ultramarine First Company on Macragge? Who cares. Probably 99% of the users on this board like the movie Aliens, and a well-done 40k movie could be bigger, shinier, noisier, and more bloody. Who cares if the plot is paper thin, we just want to see carapaces blown apart and some good one-liners!

Yes, but as I said the point of the movie would be to entice more people to play warhammer and a movie just isn't a good way (imo) to do that.

dietrich wrote:I have a plot for a 40k movie.

Marines vs. Tyranids. I mean, really, does it need to be more? If it looks cool on the screen, I'd pay to go see marines blaze away with bolters and flamers. Maybe the stand of the Ultramarine First Company on Macragge? Who cares. Probably 99% of the users on this board like the movie Aliens, and a well-done 40k movie could be bigger, shinier, noisier, and more bloody. Who cares if the plot is paper thin, we just want to see carapaces blown apart and some good one-liners!

Didn't we already see that movie? Had something to do with LV 214 and an android or something?

"Get away from her you Bit !"

jfrazell wrote:

dietrich wrote:I have a plot for a 40k movie.

Marines vs. Tyranids. I mean, really, does it need to be more? If it looks cool on the screen, I'd pay to go see marines blaze away with bolters and flamers. Maybe the stand of the Ultramarine First Company on Macragge? Who cares. Probably 99% of the users on this board like the movie Aliens, and a well-done 40k movie could be bigger, shinier, noisier, and more bloody. Who cares if the plot is paper thin, we just want to see carapaces blown apart and some good one-liners!

Didn't we already see that movie? Had something to do with LV 214 and an android or something?

"Get away from her you Bit !"

Yea but that movie is a-friggin-mazing, if your gonna rip something off rip off a good one.

dietrich wrote:Probably 99% of the users on this board like the movie Aliens, and a well-done 40k movie could be bigger, shinier, noisier, and more bloody. Who cares if the plot is paper thin, we just want to see carapaces blown apart and some good one-liners!

Aliens is probably one of the top three influences on W40K, and none of the reasons you listed are why it is still listed among the greatest action movies ever. Unless you get Jim Cameron to direct (unlikely, as he is working on Avatar), it won't be bigger, shinier and more bloody. It would be a joke, an expensive rehash of superior work. Because, get this, plot does matter.

The 40K universe would have great difficulty translating to a modern, mainstream movie audience. I'd argue it's near impossible.

That said, the major thing GW is missing is a gateway drug on the tabletop. They have a great skirmish ruleset sitting around, and they need to find a way to market it, make it it's own game, and then make it easily transferable to larger 40k tabletop battles. All it requires is a CHEAPER rulebook ($25 at most) and a single box set for your force. Make that force "veteran" plastics, and it'll sell like hotcakes to established gamers for any of the armies. The entry cost, combined with the entry time commitment, needs to be shortened.

Honestly, I still think a 40k movie would be a great benefit towards them. They would not be directly paying for it, rather licensing the rights, and if they slipped a 2 minute advert for DoW and 40k etc. into the trailers more people would see those ads than would ever buy White Dwarf.
That's one great thing that DoW did, it got people who didn't like/know GW products (I hated, HATED 40k products back when I was younger and my roommate had no idea it existed) but since I read a good review online I picked it up on a whim. One year and some 3k$ later, I am firmly sucked back into mini gaming.
Also consider that movies develope fan followings with far less back story going for them. Take Alien. Good movie. Very solid. There is no inherent back story to care about, but somehow the idea hooked a huge number of fans, who kept seeing the movies despite how much the last few sucked. Fans who also buy books, figurines, video games, etc. Much like the things GW sells.

I just don't see how it could be bad, unless the movie is SO over the top bad that it burns the idea of a bad movie into people's minds when they hear "40k" instead of the game. Which is possible, but even if it was sort of ok, it would net positive results, I think.