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I decided to run Kaya this week, but I don't have a ton of experience with
her or her faction. I've played all of maybe 10-15 games, and half of those
have been with Kromac (KROMAC!!!!).

One of biggest problems was handling the Kaya yoyo. I never seem to think
ahead enough Fury wise for feat turn or control areas for spirit doors and
all the crazy speed of Circle.

Any ideas?

She's my least favourite Circle caster, but, you said you 'never seem to think ahead enough Fury wise for feat turn'.

If you mean there's no fury on your beasts for you to pull off, then, you missed the bit where you can place up to 3 fury on each of her warbeasts as part of her feat.

One slight extension to the usual sneakiness with her, is, to spirit door a heavy (warpwolf) from miles away into a group of shifting stones and then teleport it with the shifting stones. Hopefully into somebodies back-arc. People are more likely to miss the teleport if the warpwolf doesn't start inside the shifting stones I find.

I just don't like her that much though tbh so i'm not the best person for advice for her. I love Krueger, Morvhana, and Kromac (as a 2nd caster at 1k particularly).

I forget to have enough Fury or I don't leave enough Fury
on beasts for her to leech the following turn.

Kaya and the Argus's speed also gives me fits trying to keep
everything in her 12" control area.

I have played against circle on numerous occasions and the toughest casters IMO are Krueger and Morgana. Kruegers feat is brutal against hordes and Morgana has a upkeep spell with those wolf riders that almost makes them impossible to go away. Against Kromac you just stay out of his charge range and Kaya once played is easy to counter. Baldur is just plain weak sauce.

Kaya is one of the Circle's trickiest Warlocks to figure out. She's my favorite though.

I like to split her force into two groups:
1) Kaya and her beasts
2) Bloodtrackers and a Totem Hunter

Kaya and her beasts maintain a fairly loose, but cohesive forces that runs/advances and looks for a chance to yo-yo a warpwolf.

The Bloodtrackers and Totem Hunter rush up one flank and force the enemy to divide his forces.

You're divided too, but Bloodtrackers and the TH work extremely well on their own so it's not such a problem.

I generally use a list like this at 500:
Kaya
Pureblood Warpwolf
Warpwolf
Gorax
Shifting Stones
Bloodtackers (10)
Totem Hunter

Remember that Kaya can afford to run her beasts a little 'hot' on fury due to her Calm ability.

Also, remember that you can cut yourself for fury if you screw up your calculations and Shifting Stones can heal you d3 if you need 'em too.

Stones are also good for repositioning Kaya if you need a few extra inches of control area, or if you need to move her elsewhere after she has advanced and Spiritdoored a beast.

I thought Baldur and Kruegar were good for scenario play?

blueloki: Have you ever used the Woldwarden for his animus?

Baldur is king of scenarios. He's a slow-n-steady warlock in a game that normally favors the fast and crazy. But when you add scenarios to the mix, he rocks.

I don't ever use a Warden with Kaya, but there's no reason you shouldn't give it a try. Undergrowth would be fantastic for defending against counterattacks (melee or ranged) after you yo-yo a warpwolf.

They're a bit on the slow side, and Kaya's offensive spell isn't killer like some of the other Circle Warlocks, so I stick to the fuzzy beasts with her. If you do bring one, remember that you can have it trample for the first couple turns for the extra 3" of movement.

I do love Wardens (I have 3) with everyone else though. They're a fantastic beast in nearly every aspect.

I'm thinking undergrowth would increase the likelikhood of a crit knockdown.

It would, slightly malfred. The problem is that it'll cost you two fury from Kaya to cast.

If your opponent lets a max 9" trampling woldwarden get to him, then, you're probably not going to have much trouble beating them anyway.

I HATE her crit knockdown. You cannot rely on it at all imo. With 10 fury (+feat - spirit door) you're likely to get one, but if you don't get it till the 3rd or 4th attack then it's too late to make much difference as you've already had to spend all that fury on boosts to hit. With her lame p+s you're likely to need more than just her to kill a higher armour warlock/warcaster. Against a high-def, low armour guy like morghoul, if you get an early crit you'll murder them, if you don't, you'll end up standing beside them at the start of your opponents next turn all hung out to dry.

One little trick that can boost her assasination ability is bone-grinders and their harness spirit. She has a good pow on splinter, and a lame strength. So if you can give her another beasts strength she turns into a really hard hitter. If you're going for the spirit door assination run, you could even kill one of your own beasts, like a gorax (though i find them a bit slow for her, and a warpwolf might just survive badly damaged instead) and give her that before the run.

Then you're relying on the conjunction of too many things. I just don't like her at all.

quozl wrote:
Then you're relying on the conjunction of too many things. I just don't like her at all.

You're right, of course. But that's some of the fun of the game sometimes.

It's not like I'm bringing her to a steamroller or anything.

But yes, you're right.

With Undergrowth up, Kaya's going to hit a heavy for sure.
A quick heavy becomes DEF 12. She needs 6 to hit, and
crits on 3s, 4s, or 5s. If you boost to hit, she's probably
going to crit on 2s, maybe even 1s.

Even if she doesn't, or if you don't go for it, she can bring
your Ragered beast in with Spirit Door. With Undergrowth
up, your Warpwolf or anything else will probably hit with
a head butt and pull off it's Throatripper. Spirit dooring the
Woldwarden gives you a handy slam (how does slam vs.
difficult terrain work?) If the heavy has tons of damage,
you can teleport in a beast to two handed throw and
neuter instead of kill.

Spirit Door means there are more places on the
battlefield where you can use a warbeast's animus. It'll
be expensive (3 door, 2 for animus, 1 to upkeep rager),
and situational, but fun fun fun.

malfred wrote:With Undergrowth up, Kaya's going to hit a heavy for sure.
A quick heavy becomes DEF 12. She needs 6 to hit, and
crits on 3s, 4s, or 5s. If you boost to hit, she's probably
going to crit on 2s, maybe even 1s.

She'll hit a heavy alright, but, she won't hurt it is the problem. I can't remember her P+S off-hand, is it 11? It's pretty poor anyway.

Even if she only needs a 6 to hit, and you're boosting, she's got a (slightly) less than 2/5th chance of criting.

If you're relying on spiritdooring in a warpwolf, then she has to have walked or charged to the caster, as it's a 1 cast per turn spell. So your opponent has to have let you charge his caster with kaya. You're right though, if you get the opportunity to spirit door in a heavy that's much more likely to do something nasty to your opponent

The fun thing I can agree with.

That's my point with Kaya. If you ever get charged once you learn to never let it happen again. Infantry spam screens usually tie up her beasts long enough to let you kill her. She's tough to use and IMO really one demensional. Krueger and Morgana have more tricks and multiple uses.

I'm okay with learning a trick while I'm still learning a
single faction.

Besides, Morgana is headless at the moment and Kruegar
is only primed.

Kaya can be pretty powerful. She's very different from Kromac. Planning the Fury usage will come with more play. I play about twice a month and usually mess it up at least once a game.

Critical Effects and Tough are things, that to me, you can't use to 'win'. They're too unreliable, so if you can't expect them to happen.

I'd take her with a Warpwolf (or even the Alpha) and a Gorax. Use the Gorax animus on the WW, do the yo-yo. Most heavies can kill most other heavies with a charge. The problem is surviving it, which the yo-yo should let you do.

Loki's list looks solid, but I'd consider making room for Sentry Stones. And when the Druid solo comes out, I'd fit him into the list as well.

Kaya's biggest weakness is her lack of anti-infantry. Take some combination of Wolves, Wolf Riders, Bloodtrackers, and Sentry Stones. As for making her Spirit Door assassination run work, you could always take Bonegrinders to steal the STR of a warbeast. Even with the STR of a Gorax, she becomes wicked in melee.

Dude! When are you gaming again?

When I can, malf. I've been out of minis because of WoW and losing my job. Now that I've taken care of both of those problems, I've been playing again.

I like how you mention WoW first.

Yeah. Quitting WoW was more important to my well-being than employment. 30 years from now, people will be telling stories about quitting WoW like people today talk about quitting smoking.

dietrich wrote:I'd take her with a Warpwolf (or even the Alpha) and a Gorax. Use the Gorax animus on the WW, do the yo-yo. Most heavies can kill most other heavies with a charge. The problem is surviving it, which the yo-yo should let you do.

Yes, this works well. BUT, you have to be very careful. When Kaya yo-yos the Primaled Warpwolf back, it will by definition be in her 2" melee range. If you don't move her elsewhere afterwards, the Warpwolf will turn around next turn and eat her when it auto-frenzies. Just make sure that the Warpwolf can't see anything but enemy models, and that it isn't in any friendly's melee range.

I'm a bit off on the frenzy rules. If they can see another
friendly model, but one is closer but unseen, which one
do they go for?

Assuming no enemies:

Friendly A: LOS 5" away
Friendly B: Closest but outside of LOS

oomiestompa wrote:Yeah. Quitting WoW was more important to my well-being than employment. 30 years from now, people will be telling stories about quitting WoW like people today talk about quitting smoking.

does that make me a social WoWer? That almost makes sense.

Between expansions and everything else I've spent something like $400+ on that stupid game, which is pretty sad considering how little I've played it. Nothing like getting a good solid three weeks out of a 60 day game card.

I mostly game when my brother games, but we've been
resistant to grouping because of all that grouping implies.

I think I've made room in both the 500 and 750 lists for
Bloodtrackers, Wolf Riders, and stones (both flavors).

Here's the nice thing: the global effect this week is everyone
gets 50 points. So I get to write 550 and 800 pt lists.

On top of that, Circle's Strategic Advantage is you get to
re-roll a failed Threshold check. It's only one per turn, but
still, running hot won't be such a problem with Kaya's
ability stacked on top of that.

Faction: Circle Orboros
Army Points: 544/550
Victory Points: 21

Kaya the Wildborne
Warpwolf
Woldwarden
Argus
Gorax
Sentry Stone
Shifting Stones
Tharn Bloodtrackers (7)
Totem Hunter

Faction: Circle Orboros
Army Points: 797/800
Victory Points: 27

Kaya the Wildborne
Pureblood Warpwolf
Warpwolf
Woldwarden
Argus
Gorax
Lord of the Feast
Sentry Stone
Shifting Stones
Tharn Bloodtrackers (8)
Tharn Wolf Riders (5)

malfred wrote:I'm a bit off on the frenzy rules. If they can see another
friendly model, but one is closer but unseen, which one
do they go for?

Assuming no enemies:

Friendly A: LOS 5" away
Friendly B: Closest but outside of LOS

iirc, they charge, so B is safe.

I forgot that the Gorax's animus makes them auto-frenzy the next turn. Well, maybe it doesn't work too well then. I guess if you throw a cheap unit in the WW's path, it could work, but otherwise the yo-yo could be a problem.

malfred wrote:I'm a bit off on the frenzy rules. If they can see another
friendly model, but one is closer but unseen, which one
do they go for?

Assuming no enemies:

Friendly A: LOS 5" away
Friendly B: Closest but outside of LOS

I believe it's charge models in LOS first, walk up to models not in LOS second.

Tacobake wrote:does that make me a social WoWer? That almost makes sense.

Yeah, right. "Whenever I go out drinking, I just gotta play WoW."

@malf: Both of those lists look pretty good. If you're still having trouble with infantry, you can put Primal on the Warpwolf and Trample at MAT 8. With the 750 list, Ferocity from the Pureblood makes it even easier to hit. Just remember that Rager no longer lets you Trample for free.

So Rager on the Pureblood, then for a free head butt or
throw, and then crazy Trample on the Warpwolf.

If your sold on Kaya another classic tricks is using the druids with thier smoke screen ability on each one and making them stealthy with her spell giving you a wall of smoke protecting everything behind it. Works extremely well against Trolls/Skorne but nothing against legion. Use the screen until your close enough to charge/assasinate.