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Howdy folks,

The "purity above all" trait says (in part):

Any Veteran or Tactical squad may upgrade its Veteran Sergeant to be an Apothecary. This upgrade costs a further +25 points and includes equipping the Apothecary with a Narthecium & Reductor.

Now, it specifies "Veteran Sergeant". A veteran sergeant is defined as a Sergeant who has taken the upgrade "Terminator Honors" as specified by this quote:

Sergeants with Terminator Honours are generally referred to as Veteran Sergeants.

(That's from the "Terminator Honors" fluff description in the Marine Codex).

I am trying to create a chapter using the IAL software (available from the GW site) and generally speaking it's an awesome piece of kit that really helps when it comes to making lists. However, in this case I think they've got it horribly wrong....

Costs:
Terminator Honors for Sergeant: 15 points
Upgrade to Apothecary: 25 points
Total cost: 40 points

For some odd reason I can't figure out, the program is trying to charge me 43 points for an Apothecary. Anyone have any idea why?

Also, once I've upgraded to Apothecary, I have to buy Termi Honors AGAIN to get any additional wargear for the model. This doesn't seem right to me - it is the same Sergeant that I've already bought the Honors for - surely I don't have to buy it again?!? (I want to add a Power Weapon to my Sergpothecarys )

Is this right?

Viperion

Nope. You pegged it. It's not right.


It IS, however, par for the course.

Suplicate to the Machine God, and hope for the best (or just make the list with excel).

With the new SM Codex coming out later this year, you probably shouldn't focus on a new Traits-based army.

In all likelihood, Traits will go away, and Purity will be one of the casualties.

JohnHwangDD wrote:With the new SM Codex coming out later this year, you probably shouldn't focus on a new Traits-based army.

In all likelihood, Traits will go away, and Purity will be one of the casualties.

...along with most options, variety, the armory and, well, the fun!

(sorry, couldn't resist!)

Yeah I know Want to have some fun with some of the weirder traits before they disappear...

Viperion

I have to concur that I don't see the apothecary trait sticking around.

Alpharius wrote:(sorry, couldn't resist!)

When I tee it up high and soft, if you don't drill it, it's a disappointment to us all.

Viperion wrote:
I am trying to create a chapter using the IAL software (available from the GW site)

Viperion

Is that the software where you have to buy both pieces (good and bad) to get every option and rarely gets updated or has the updating thing changed? If so, Yuechhy piece of s/ware - good idea but horribly implemented.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Alpharius wrote:(sorry, couldn't resist!)

When I tee it up high and soft, if you don't drill it, it's a disappointment to us all.

I do appreciate it JHDD, I really do!

Though I will be sad when Traits go away.

I know they need to be reworked...

But isn't there some way to save them?

In some ways Traits can't be saved, because they create an inherent game problem. When you have army lists that are too flexible, they compete too strongly with other related Codices. When the Codices are too close to one another, there is dilution in "uniqueness" that makes each army special.

For example, this is why vanilla Space Marines are almost definitely going to lose the Traits for more Assault Marines and more Bikers, because they are too close to Blood Angels and Ravenwing, respectively. From a design and balance standpoint, it is easier and clearer to force the insignificant handful of Ravenwing and White Scars players to play as Blood Angels and Ravenwing. Similarly, it is easier to force BP&CCW and True Grit SM to play as Black Templars or Space Wolves, respectively.

Those players who require their Fluff to be spoon fed can play UM, BT, SW, BA, or DA as-is. Those players who want to roll their own simply declare themselves to be a successor or variant, or "counts as".

Similarly, I don't see the "invisible" (i.e. non-modeled) USR Traits sticking around because it's not obvious to the opponent.

I could see minor tweaks tied to Chapter-specific Special Characters to split the difference between the two extremes, but I don't see Traits coming back in their current form. At least, not if the recent Codices are any guidance.

Sad but probably too true.

I'll enjoy the "Traits" while I can, and try to look forward to the day that C:SM 5th hits and the whole world will finally know the difference between a bolter and a Heavy Plasma Gun...

I still miss the days when there was a difference between the Plasma Cannon, Heavy Plasma Gun, and the regular Plasma Gun.

Me too, but you know that day will never come again!

(Well, at least not until JJ Jr. gets his college degree...)