Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all, this is my first post with Dakka (ork smilies brilliant!)

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone out there has tried a nothing but aspect warrior army,and if anyone would have any suggestions on how to run one?

I plan to include 1 of every aspect (every freakin' one of 'em!), and 2 pheonix lords to lead them, for a 1750pt army.

Am I insane ? well, I'd like to hear what y'all think of it as a possible army. Just don't tell me not to do it - I want a real challenge here!

You aren't insane.

It's difficult to run good assault troops out of Wave Serpents, since WS die so easily.

Most of the traditional Eldar assault troops have been supplanted by Harlequins.

Biel Tan used to be fun to play. The current Codex allows it, but without 5th edition rules you'll have a hard time getting the army to work properly without relying on Falcons to do it.

Feasible in 5th ed. Not so great in 4th ed tho.

It won't compete with the popular armies like Zilla Nids and Super Skimmers but it can do very well against all the average armies in the game. To beat the more hardcore lists you will have to use alot of area terrain away from the edges and most importantly be a very observant and skilled general. Also you have to forgo the use of Wave Serpents, they will end up being such a large chunk of your armies cost that you won't be able to win consistently unless you are playing with huge area terrain pieces.

I just ran a mech Swordwind list in a tournament (Autarch, 2xDA, FD, Banshees, Shining spears, Hawks, 2xPrism, 4x Serpent). Did pretty well (4-1). Granted, it was 2150 points.

Good to hear that it may be possible!

I'll be sure to pass on how it goes in the future

Thanks all!

The thing with a list like that is you are going to run into some issues with things that the non aspect portions of the eldar codex general cover. You are also going to need to run a fair number of wave serpents if you are going to try and make this work since some aspects more or less require them. Lets take a look at what you might have and what you need to do with them.

Troops:
Dire avengers: They are the only aspect troop choice, so you get 2 squads of them, minimum. I’ve never seen anyone be successful with them on foot, so I have to recommend that you put them in a serpent and do the fish of fury drive by style attacks with them. They more or less need an exarch with blade storm. You can experiment with giving the exarch a dire sword and shimmer shield if you like. It’s good if you find you end up in hand to hand often.

Elite:
Banshees: This is another squad that requires a wave serpent to do their job. Zoom up near the enemy and hope the serpent lives though the turn. In the next turn, disembark the banshees, move them, fleet them and charge. Take 10 man (woman) squads with an exarch.

Scorpions: These guys tend to be difficult to use since they can’t fleet. You can try using a serpent like the banshees, but it’s more difficult to get a charge that way. In general, these guys function better if you infiltrate them up and use them as a counter charge unit or area denial unit. An exarch with a power claw is recommended.

Fire Dragons: Another squad that requires a serpent to be effective. I would recommend smaller squad sizes for these guys 6ish dragons is usually plenty. Fire dragon exarchs are a waste of points so skip them.

Fast Attack:
Warp Spiders: I’m not so sold on these guys but pleanty of other people like them. Take medium sized squads (8ish) and go hunting for targets of opportunity. Their high strength, multi shot weapons make them good light vehicle killers, particularly when they use their mobility to get to side and rear armor. Otherwise, use them to pick apart units that are slow or lightly armored (aka have bad armor saves).

Shining Spears: These guys are a decent far reaching assault unit. I believe their best use is in harassing back field units like devastator squads and the like. Hold them back for a round or two behind cover and then turbo boost over the heads of your enemies and into their back field (preferably to a location that will minimize the amount of fire you will take that round). Next turn zoom up 12 towards a back field unit and assault them. By the second or third turn the enemy is unlikely to have anything back there to help support his unit so you can rampage around. Conversely, you can use the spears to support hand to hand combats elsewhere on the board since they are fast enough to get there before the combat ends.

Swooping Hawks: Despite them being one of my favorite eldar models, these guys are really a lack luster unit. Their hawk bombs are unreliable, their weapons are weak, their armor is light, and they cost too many points for what they can do. That being said, take a smallish squad (6 or so) and use them as harassment troops. They can jump towards or away from the enemy so that they are just barely in range to shoot and open up with their las blasters. If you judged the range well, there shouldn’t be much enemy return fire the next turn. I don’t recommend using an exarch. While intercept sounds tempting, it has the tendency to bait you far too close to the enemy which will get your T3, 4+ armored guys killed every time.

Heavy Support:
Dark Reapers: I love these guys. Nothing says infantry killing goodness like S5, AP3, Heavy 2 weapons with a 48” range on every guy in a squad. I recommend taking full squads with an exarch. I like to give my exarch a tempest launcher and crack shot (much better and cheaper than fast shot). If you are low on points, you can forgo the exarch (or just leave him with a reaper launcher and crack shot). I would avoid giving the exarch a missile launcher since it will tempt you to use the squad to shoot at vehicles where most of their very powerful infantry killing power will be wasted.

Remember that all your serpents must have spirit stones and I would recommend putting vectored engines on at least some of them. In addition, since the aspect warriors tend to lack anti tank power (with the exception of fire dragons) you will probably want to outfit most of your serpents with bright lances to make up for this deficiency. All in all, you should have a decent amount of both hand to hand and shooting power. The army is going to be mostly a close range army so be ready to move and be careful when going up against shooty armies.

All in all, I think the list will be mediocre. You’ll probably win some games and lose some games in more or less even proportion (assuming you are playing all comers in a non tournament environment). With such a vast array of units, it should be a fun army to both play and to paint. If you are looking purely for an army to win with, this isn’t going to be it.

I'm looking for a real challenge with this army, so I expect to lose a good number of games before I get the hang of it. That, and that I have sworn off vehicles of any sort - so Serpents are right out of the question.

They'll all be on foot.

Which Phoenix Lords do you recomend?

Phoenix wrote:
Shining Spears: These guys are a decent far reaching assault unit. I believe their best use is in harassing back field units like devastator squads and the like. Hold them back for a round or two behind cover and then turbo boost over the heads of your enemies and into their back field (preferably to a location that will minimize the amount of fire you will take that round). Next turn zoom up 12 towards a back field unit and assault them. By the second or third turn the enemy is unlikely to have anything back there to help support his unit so you can rampage around. Conversely, you can use the spears to support hand to hand combats elsewhere on the board since they are fast enough to get there before the combat ends.

The way I used my Spears was as a jump-shoot-jump Shurkin Cannon + Reaper Launcher that held back until they were needed to engage. They are decently effective in this role. Sometimes I used them to try to assassinate something.

Swooping Hawks: Despite them being one of my favorite eldar models, these guys are really a lack luster unit. Their hawk bombs are unreliable, their weapons are weak, their armor is light, and they cost too many points for what they can do. That being said, take a smallish squad (6 or so) and use them as harassment troops. They can jump towards or away from the enemy so that they are just barely in range to shoot and open up with their las blasters. If you judged the range well, there shouldn’t be much enemy return fire the next turn. I don’t recommend using an exarch. While intercept sounds tempting, it has the tendency to bait you far too close to the enemy which will get your T3, 4+ armored guys killed every time.

The Exarch gives them a couple things and I recommend it. First off is the strength 5 gun. He also turns the hawks into an emergency vehicle killer (Intercept plus haywires). The trick with hawks is to limit the return fire they take (Take full advantage of the 24" assault 2 guns) and give your opponent something else that is more dangerous to shoot at.

Wow, no serpents…that really will be a challenge. And you are requiring at least 1 squad of each aspect? Well you’ve piqued my curiosity as to how best to make such an army…I’ll have to sit down with the codex tonight and see what I can come up with for a possible army list on this one. How many points are you shooting for?

Regardless, as far as phoenix lords go, I’m partial to Jain Zar. She does a lot of damage in both hand to hand and shooting not to mention that she is reasonably priced (sort of). After that, it’s kind of up in the air. Maugen Ra isn’t all that that great due to the lack of AP on his weapon. Feugan doesn’t have enough range on his weaponry to be all that effective of a shooter and he doesn’t have the hand to hand power to keep him alive once he’s in that close. Baharroth just doesn’t seem to do anything particularly useful. Karandras would be great if it wasn’t for the fact that he strikes last and any smart player will pull all their casualties out of base to base with him before he gets to swing. So I suppose that leaves Asurmen running with your dire avengers. Given their up front role and the fact that the will be likely to both end up in hand to hand and to be shot up a lot, he’s probably the best addition to your force.

skyth wrote:The way I used my Spears was as a jump-shoot-jump Shurkin Cannon + Reaper Launcher that held back until they were needed to engage. They are decently effective in this role. Sometimes I used them to try to assassinate something.

How do shining spears get a shuriken cannon or a reaper launcher? I can't say I've made much use of them, but I didn't realize either of these weapons were options they had.

Good on ya for wanting a challenge!

I suggest taking Asurmen as one of your Phoenix Lords so you get the benefit of his Master of Strategy ability, which will gel nicely with the Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks, and you can skimp on a Dire Avenger Exarch and use him instead. Baharroth will be handy for his hit-and-run, whacking tanks with the squad's haywire grenades and booking it. Maybe something like:

HQ
Asurmen
Baharroth (It's a nice model)

Elites
Striking Scorpions
Howling Banshees
Fire Dragons

Troops
3x Dire Avengers (2x Exarchs)

Fast Attack
Warp Spiders
Swooping Hawks (9 including Exarch)
Shining Spears

Heavy Support
2x Dark Reapers (2x Exarchs with Eldar Missile Launchers for the pinning and the blast)

Don't know what the points are, but it should be fun learning how to co-ordinate all the different aspects. Post a battle report as soon as possible!

Phoenix wrote:

skyth wrote:The way I used my Spears was as a jump-shoot-jump Shurkin Cannon + Reaper Launcher that held back until they were needed to engage. They are decently effective in this role. Sometimes I used them to try to assassinate something.

How do shining spears get a shuriken cannon or a reaper launcher? I can't say I've made much use of them, but I didn't realize either of these weapons were options they had.

Exarch can get a Shurkin Cannon, Autarch can get a Reaper Launcher.

I'm with ya Canoness! Slowly building myself a Beil'Tan army as well. Granted I'm not taking it quite as extreme as you, taking some Serpents and a unit of Rangers, but still working on pulling a unit of each Aspect. Recently had a discussion on my list over in the Army Lists folder, so here's a link to that so you can see where I'm headed, and the advise I was given.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/207388.page

I just got laughed out of the B&C on this one (bunch of no-good Space Marines )

I'm going for 1750 pts on this one. I've settled on only one of each aspect, and one unit of pathfinders - It's doable, but I have no clue whether it will work or not.

I think Maugan Ra and Jain Zar could make a good duo, as both are potent at range and melee - and are the most cost effective.

I still have a lot of minis to buy, so it'll be a while before I have anything to report.

Your list is entriely doable. Also, if you can get good with this sort of list in 4th, you will do really well in 5th.

I really like Nurglitch's suggested list, with the possible exception of including Maugan Ra over Baharroth. That really depends upon how much luck you have with Rending shots, and how prevalent vehicles are in your group. In 5th edition, tougher vehicles and worse rending will make Baharroth the better choice.

I also recommend Asurmen (over Jain Zar) as one of your HQ choices. Here's why:
-Invulnerable saves are extremely useful on an independent character. Jain Zar lacks one- even with her high number of attacks, that powerfist might live to swing on her. It's unlikely after a Banshee charge, but against multiple units it's likely.
-Making Dire Avengers with PW/SS Fearless makes them an even better tarpit than they already are. Adding the hittiness of Asurmen to that tarpit makes it truly deadly. Banshees benefit significantly less from this, as they're better hammers than anvils. And if you have two+ Dire Avenger units, you can choose which one to add Asurmen to at the last minute. If most of your single (assumed) unit of Banshees gets toasted, Jain Zar is less able to add her strength to another unit.

Maugan Ra is a good second choice. He will reinforce your otherwise weak medium-strength shooting to take out transports, etc. Added to Asurmen in your advancing firebase (anvil section), he will be really nasty. The lack of AP is made up for by rending, especially against Nidzilla, Wraithlords, plague marines, etc.

Overall, I suggest that you create an advancing firebase with Dire Avengers and Pheonix Lords, coordinated with "hammers" of aspects running up to either side. Keep Reapers static on a hill behind if you can, otherwise use them to deter enemy flanking. And the EML's are nice to have when you really, really need to shake a vehicle and your other units have failed to do so.

Speaking of which, one of your big challenges will be dealing with vehicles. Spiders will help a lot here (go forwards fast, then hit side /rear armor and follow-up by shooting retreating enemy). Hawks will also help. The Intercept-then-die dance is a worthwhile trade if you're taking out vehicles whose heavy bolters are mowing down your advancing troops. I wouldn't bother with Fire Dragons on foot unless you know you're facing tons of vehicles. In that case, take a single min-sized unit, and be ready to fleet them two turns, then watch them die after they pop something. Baharroth is also a possibility to deal with tanks, but Maugan Ra is more flexible. That choice is definitely one to experiment with.

Finally, screw the B&C laughers. If you can win with this, you'll really kick ass once you decide to include Serpents like we want you to.

Thanks for the confidence boost!

I would also like to note that Shining Spears also seem to be a viable tank hunting unit. They all have S6 lances in shooting (S8 for exarch) and then they can charge with a bunch of attacks @ the same strength. Plus they are great at outflanking the enemy.

Beware of using Spears as anti-tank unless they have nothing else to do nearby and are not going to get rapidfired to death. Even with Fortune, they die to mass bolterfire all too often. I prefer to keep mine behind terrain as they swoop in untill they can jump something. If you're really getting pounded by a Predator or something maybe, but otherwise I would let your other units take those threats out while the Spears focus on not dying and then splatting Marines/TMCs/whatever.

Those 3-5 S6 shots can help, but usually not as much as 7-11 S6 powerweapon attacks. But your mileage may vary in some situations. And against Armored Company or other skimmer armies, screw the CC and go for rear armor shots for sure.

Lady_Canoness wrote:Thanks for the confidence boost!

I would also like to note that Shining Spears also seem to be a viable tank hunting unit. They all have S6 lances in shooting (S8 for exarch) and then they can charge with a bunch of attacks @ the same strength. Plus they are great at outflanking the enemy.

The problem with charging vehicles is that 90% of the time you need 6's to hit them in hand to hand because they moved over 6" on their turn. While this certainly isn't always the case, its the case often enough to keep in mind. That combined with the fact that strength 6 is already looking for "lucky" rolls to do damage in the first place and it works out to a situation where you're not too likely to actualy do damage. Now if you can work out rear charges or hit other armor 10 or 11 facings, you're in a much better position and the outlook isn't so bleak. Just something to keep in mind.

Well, they do have the strength 8 lance shot...Plus some strength 6 lance shots. Decent chance to do something to a tank with shooting.

Then they can charge or back off in the assault phase.

Still, not the most efficient unit for tank-hunting, but they can manage in a pinch.

Yeah, the Star Lance comes in handy occasionally. If I've got the extra points I take one. Not too bad for the buck vs. vehicles, Daemon princes, wraithlords and TMCs.

And Phoenix is right about needing 6s to hit pretty often. Those are times you shouldn't even try, and should concentrate on conserving your Spears for future hittiness.