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Just a quick question regarding the last man standing rule - what if the last man standing is a 1 attack bike out of 2. Does it take the test at the last wound or does it take it every turn?

thanks

[rhetorica]Does the Last Man Standing rule refer to the last model in a unit or the last wound in a unit?[/rhetorical]

Your answer is right in the book.

The last man standing rules are on page 49 in the rulebook.

The way I read the rule it always applies if there is only one model left from a unit that started out as a 2+ models unit nomatter how many wounds that last model has.

That was a completely useless and snide comment, Snoogums. If you're going to respond, please be helpful.

well, when indicating when the test is taken it actually refers to the last "member" of a unit, not model OR wound, although it later uses model to specify that units that start out alone aren't subject to tests.

I think the confusion in THIS scenario, is that while they represent the attack bike with a single model, they clearly indicate that there are two people on an attack bike.

Each bike in a unit may fire with one weapon for each rider on the bike. Thus a Space Marine Attack Bike with a driver and and passenger in sidecar can fire with two weapons.

I can understand how you might wonder about it, but I would say that, since the attack bike doesn't suffer other disadvantages after losing a wound (such as being unable to fire two weapons etc) then there is no real difference between 1 and 2 wounds and you are forced to take the test despite the two riders. I guess those sidecar gunners just aren't very good company.

It is better to run two bikes as separate FA units rather than one of two. You can split fire too.

- G

Iorek wrote:That was a completely useless and snide comment, Snoogums. If you're going to respond, please be helpful.

I fail to see how it was useless and not helpful. If the OP is reading the rule (which we assume he is since he is asking a question about it) then pointing out wether it is referring to 'last model standing' or 'last remaining wound' will allow him to have his answer and he will be able to comprehend why that is the right answer instead of just going "that's what they said on DakkaDakka'. Pointing out the obvious with a little humor should not be taken as rude.

Would you have thought I was being rude if I left the [rhetorical] tags off?

Should I assume that the OP cannot think on his own with a little nudge in the right direction?

How's this: Last Man Standing refers to the Last Man, not the Last Wound. Does a three wound model count as three men? No, it counts as one man and therefore one model is the last man.

Snoogums, a page number would have made it look alot more helpful, even with the retorical tags. Why not assume that he has already read the rulebook and it is unclear to him?

whitedragon wrote:Snoogums, a page number would have made it look alot more helpful, even with the retorical tags. Why not assume that he has already read the rulebook and it is unclear to him?

He didn't ask where the rule was so I just assumed he knew where the rule that he referred to by name would be because I assumed he had read the book and it was unclear to him. Since his question was about wether or not the model count or wound count mattered, my rhetorical question was completely relevant and asnwered the question like so.

1: neofright reads the last man standing rule.
2: neofright posts on DakkaDakka because he does not find it clear.
3: snooggums posts "Does it refer to model or wounds?" and neofright looks at the rule again. We note that the rhetorical question does answer the original question.
4: neofright notes that last man standing refers to models and it becomes clear that models are what matters neofright will take a test for each following round that the model is the only model remaining in the unit.

That chain of events involves neofright being intelligent enough to read posts and apply them to the question he asked, which I just assume he is capable of doing so without ever meeting him. Are you saying I should assume is is not capable of understanding this or that I need to write answers as if I'm instructing a 5 year old?

Coulda started with saying "The book references models, not wounds. So regarding your question, when 1 attack bike dies, the 2nd remaining attack bike makes tests no matter how many wounds it has left. You may want to re-read the rulebook as well to confirm this"

He'd say thank you and it woulda ended at that. Instead we're here, with you having to "defend" yourself and what you stated. Just 0.02 from a non-mod impartial reader

snooggums wrote:How's this: Last Man Standing refers to the Last Man, not the Last Wound. Does a three wound model count as three men? No, it counts as one man and therefore one model is the last man.

The thing is, you continue to oversimplify and not really explain what he was asking, it referst to a unit with only a "single member" left, not the last model OR the last wound, The attack bike clearly has 2 people riding it, according to the model and the rules. Nobody thought an ogryn would be exempt until he was on his last wound.

The specific example of an attack bike requires a bit of reasoning to be applied to it, and someone who is persistant enough could argue for not having to take the test, even though it seems to me like they should have to.

Unless they're willing to rip off one of the marines from the attack bike when I put it to one wound, I'd be making them test if a multiple attack bike squadron falls to 1 bike, no matter how many wounds. As a player that fields attack bikes myself, I'll be taking the test as well.

Drunkspleen wrote:

snooggums wrote:How's this: Last Man Standing refers to the Last Man, not the Last Wound. Does a three wound model count as three men? No, it counts as one man and therefore one model is the last man.

The thing is, you continue to oversimplify and not really explain what he was asking, it referst to a unit with only a "single member" left, not the last model OR the last wound, The attack bike clearly has 2 people riding it, according to the model and the rules. Nobody thought an ogryn would be exempt until he was on his last wound.

The specific example of an attack bike requires a bit of reasoning to be applied to it, and someone who is persistant enough could argue for not having to take the test, even though it seems to me like they should have to.

It's not that I am oversimplifying, it is that you are trying to make it too complex. The bike may be modelled with two people on the bike, but it does not count as two models mounted together like IG Heavy Weapons team. An attack bike is a single model/member/dude for the purposes of the rules, there are no special exceptions or rules particulars to the attack bike other than the ones you are trying to create on your own.

The OP asked if it was the last wound or every turn, so yes, the OP worded the question as if it was possible that an ogryn could be if it was wound based.

Okay thanks, I asked originally while I was at work and working my head around attack bikes - I don't get the option to take a single, but a unit of two that loses one model then has to take the on your own test for the rest of the game. Seemed a bit, uh, sucky to me, which is why I asked.

neofright wrote:Okay thanks, I asked originally while I was at work and working my head around attack bikes - I don't get the option to take a single, but a unit of two that loses one model then has to take the on your own test for the rest of the game. Seemed a bit, uh, sucky to me, which is why I asked.

Yeah it's sucky, like taking two Ravenors.