Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Couple questions about bomb-squigs that I hope you all can help with.

Instead of shooting, a tankbusta may release a bomb-squig, which can travel 18" and try and blow the nearest vehicle. You can take 3 per squad. If there happen to be several vehicles with X" can you release them one at a time so that the fist one might destroy the closest, the second can try for the second closest, and so on? Seems a bit beardy to me, but there's nothing written in the description about releasing multiple squigbombs.

In conjuction with the above question, does the shooting from the tankbustas happen at the same time as the bomb-squigs are released? Are you allowed to pick and choose what order you release and shoot? Say there are two tanks within 18" and one tank within 24" (rokkit range). You really want the tankbustas to shoot at the tank outside of 18" and don't trust them to make their target priority test. Can you release a couple squigs at the two closest tanks, hoping they blow them up and then shoot the further tank with the rokkits?

The only sections of the BGB that I can think of is that squad shooting is simultaneous and must be at the same target (not withstanding wargear which allows for this - such as tau target locks, SW long fangs, etc). But I'm not sure if this applies because the bomb-squigs are instead of shooting.

So 1: are they released simultaneously?
2: Are they released before, after or at the same time as the other tankbustas fire their rokkits?

Thanks

Good question for the FAQ. I think based on precedent and the phrasing that you'd have to release any bomb squigs in a given phase simultaneously. You couldn't do it sequentially, changing which is the closest.

Since it's done instead of shooting, I think the rest of the squad most likely is free to shoot at something else, assuming that they're permitted to while obeying the Glory Hogs rule. The main way for this to happen is if the closest vehicle is completely hidden out of LOS, so the bomb squigs can go after it, and the tankbustas can target the closest one which IS within LOS.

actually the glory hogs doesn't say you have to target the closest - just that you have to target a vehicle if it's in LOS. So if there are several tanks in LOS you can target any of the tanks you want depending on your target priority roll.

But what does matter is the order of shooting and releasing. E.G. one tank in 18" and one between 18" and 24". I don't want to shoot the tank within 18" and blow it up while sending the bomb-squig after it too - that's a waste of a bomb-squig. I'd rather try and target two vehicle. So if the bomb-squig blows it up, it's no longer a valid target and the tankbustas don't have to make a target priority test to shoot the other.

I think the best way to play until it's actually FAQ'd is to rule that all targets of one unit, whether they're shooting or releasing bombs squigs, but be declared/determined simultaneously. That's the closest to existing rules for splitting shooting (SW Long Fangs, Tau Target Locks), and is a good guideline to follow.

And I suspect that's the way a FAQ would rule it also. It makes the most sense. I didn't want to skew any responses I would get by posting that in the first post, but it doesn't seem to be generating much interest. Thanks for the comments.

Makes taking a bomb-squig slightly less useful. The only reason to take one is if you expect a high amount of LOS blocking terrain.

Not necessarily. If there's any LOS-blocking terrain at all, enemies will naturally use it to hide. Especially enemy skimmers. The squigs can let you kill a unit that you otherwise wouldn't be able to touch.

Also, sometimes the squigs will just be useful to increase your odds of killing something quickly. If you have ten tankbustas shooting at AV13 (say an enemy Predator), you average .37 kill results. Or roughly a 37% chance to kill it. If you're in range and you instead have three of those tankbustas release bomb squigs, your numbers jump to .54, or approximately 54% chance to kill. Not bad.

Against an AV12 skimmer moving fast (say a Tau Devilfish) just the shooting gets 3.333 hits, 1.6666 glances, .5555 kills without decoy launchers, .37 with decoy launchers. Using three squigs you go down to .2592 from shooting, you get 1.26 glances from the squigs, .42 kills from the squigs, or .28 kills with decoy launchers. Add to the 7 shots and you have .97 against a Devilfish without decoy launchers, or .65 with.

Against AV 11 with smoke (Rhino), we get .37 kills from straight shooting, or .26 with 7, and .27 more kills from the squigs, totaling .53, Interestingly, if squigs aren’t affected by smoke, .07 kills from glances plus .63 kills from pens = .7 chance of a kill just from the squigs, and a total of .96 chance when added to the shooting.

In all of the above cases, the extreme increase in accuracy the squigs give you adds substantially to your chances of getting a kill.

budro wrote:Couple questions about bomb-squigs that I hope you all can help with.

Instead of shooting, a tankbusta may release a bomb-squig, which can travel 18" and try and blow the nearest vehicle. You can take 3 per squad. If there happen to be several vehicles with X" can you release them one at a time so that the fist one might destroy the closest, the second can try for the second closest, and so on? Seems a bit beardy to me, but there's nothing written in the description about releasing multiple squigbombs.

Squigs are all released at the same time as shooting, they will all go for the closest vehicle to themselves so no guiding of squigs, you release all at the same time and if the same vehicle is closest they will all go for the same vehicle.

Question:Vehicle units, if my three squigs are released in the same phase and the closest vehicle is a land speeder unit with three land speeders, will all squigs blow upp the same land speeder if it is the closest to all three or will they spread out as per the shooting vs vehicle squadron rules (p73)?

Remember here tho that each squig will have a different release point as each tankbusta can ony release one squig.

Thus I would handle it thusly:

#1 declare target for the tankbustas (Dat ooge big ting uvva dar).

#2 check target priority as per the rules.
Question: Do you have to test for target priority for closer non vehicle units (p19)?
The rules state that I can ignore non "large" targets if going for said large targets however since this targets include artillery, monstrous creatures and vehicles I may end upp in a situation where a monstrous creature is closer than the vehicle, do I have to test for target priority here or do I still have to shoot at the vehicle (if you fail a target priority test then you have tried to shoot at the vehicle). Moreover the rules state that you can choose to target such large targets, choose indicates an option and thus I can choose not to specifically target large targets and if I then fail the target priority then I am forced to fire at the closest unit nomatter wich unit this is.
Personally I would argue that RAI a tankbusta unit is forced to target a vehicle unit in LOS, I would also argue that RAI the tankbusta unit can ignore any non vehicle unit apart from the closest for target priority purpouses but this is not RAW.

#3 count upp how many rokkits are to be fired and decide how many squigs you will release as well as specifying wich models are releasing the squigs.

#4 roll to hits and check what the squigs go for.

#5 finish upp to wound/ap rolls for all rokkits that hit and all squigs that reached a vehicle.

In conjuction with the above question, does the shooting from the tankbustas happen at the same time as the bomb-squigs are released? Are you allowed to pick and choose what order you release and shoot? Say there are two tanks within 18" and one tank within 24" (rokkit range). You really want the tankbustas to shoot at the tank outside of 18" and don't trust them to make their target priority test. Can you release a couple squigs at the two closest tanks, hoping they blow them up and then shoot the further tank with the rokkits?

As ilustrated above all shooting and squig releasing happens simultaniously, this meens you can not wait to see if your squigs do their job or clear away some small closer vehicles with rokkits to allow the squigs to go after the vehicles fully behind cover a bit further off.
Its an all or nothing deal but with some carefull moving you can still use this very much to your advantage.

The only sections of the BGB that I can think of is that squad shooting is simultaneous and must be at the same target (not withstanding wargear which allows for this - such as tau target locks, SW long fangs, etc). But I'm not sure if this applies because the bomb-squigs are instead of shooting.

Bomb squigs are sguig guided missiles basically, they can be released by a model in the shooting phase instead of shooting and then the squig itself chooses its target based on a dice roll and range to suitable targets. In my opinion this in no way affects the units own targeting.

So 1: are they released simultaneously?
2: Are they released before, after or at the same time as the other tankbustas fire their rokkits?

They are released simultaneously.

Had a situation like this in a tournamanet last weekend. My battlewagon rolled up and my T-busta's dismounted with the battlewagon bl;ocking line of sight to all enemy vehicles. (It was just a dreadnaught) Since they could not see a vehicle they decided to unload on some nice noise marines. During this shooting I released the 3 bomb squigs and shot the remaining rokkits at the marine unit. Two squigs ran right for the dread blowing it up and the last blew up my Battlewagon. So in effect I shot at three targets in one turn, and inflicted damage to 4!. (I killed 2 vehicles 4 noise marines and 6 tankbusta's form an exploding battlewagon)

Logically here's the way it works.

1. Tankbusta's choose a legal target making all needed priority checks.
2. During the firing step you may choose to release the squigs instead of firing a rokkit.
3. T-busta's resolve their attack on the unit they targeted
4. Bombsquigs resolve their attack
(steps 3 and 4 can be resolved in any order because it really makes no difference. Since these steps happen aftwer target selection they do not allow the T-busta's to change targets as a result. And since they are actually simultaneous the Battlewagon blowing up and wiping out my t-busta's standing next to it didn't prevent them from laying low the stupid noise marines.)

edit damn Fester beat me to the punch I'll leave it though cause you may enjoy the bit about me killing 4 units with one shot!

Its sad to hear your squig killed your own battlewagon and 6 tankbustas but this is somthing we ork players are used to