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Ok, so I am getting back into fantasy, and I want to use Teclis, because I think he is cool. However, a lot of my crew says that he is a crutch character, and that no one will want to play me if I use him. For a more broad opinion, I would like to see what you guys say. Is this list too cheesy, or do you have any suggestions on how to improve it so that it still functions as a magic heavy list, but that it is still fun to play against/with?

Thanks in advance for you help.

2000 Pts

1 Teclis, High Loremaster of the White Tower @ 475 Pts

Mage (1#, 175 Pts)
1 Mage @ 175 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade;
1 Annulian Crystal @ [40] Pts

Lothern Sea Guard (10#, 155 Pts)
9 Lothern Sea Guard @ 155 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear; Light Armour; Shield
1 Sea Master @ [23] Pts
Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear; Light Armour; Shield

Lothern Sea Guard (10#, 155 Pts)
9 Lothern Sea Guard @ 155 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear; Light Armour; Shield
1 Sea Master @ [23] Pts
Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear; Light Armour; Shield

Sword Masters of Hoeth (12#, 218 Pts)
12 Sword Masters of Hoeth @ 218 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std;
1 War Banner @ [20] Pts

Sword Masters of Hoeth (12#, 248 Pts)
12 Sword Masters of Hoeth @ 248 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std;
1 Banner of Sorcery @ [50] Pts


1 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts



1 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts


Dragon Princes (6#, 230 Pts)
5 Dragon Princes of Caledor @ 230 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std;
1 Drakemaster @ [50] Pts


1 Lion Chariot of Chrace @ 140 Pts


Total Roster Cost: 1996

if by too cheesy you mean not cheesy at all.... swordmasters need to be in rows of 7, so if you want 2 ranks, you need 14... you're also taking sea guard, one of the worst things in the army book, and a lion chariot, when you could almost get 2 regular chariots for the same price, and only 2 characters.....

wow, that was an ultra quick response! I will be making those changes, and posting again in a bit.

Thanks!

Ok, New list time.

1 Teclis, High Loremaster of the White Tower @ 475 Pts


1 Mage @ 135 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade


1 Mage @ 135 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade;

10 Spearmen @ 105 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std;


10 Spearmen @ 105 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std;


14 Sword Masters of Hoeth @ 278 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std;
1 Banner of Sorcery @ [50] Pts


14 Sword Masters of Hoeth @ 248 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std;
1 War Banner @ [20] Pts

5 Dragon Princes of Caledor @ 230 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std;
1 Drakemaster @ [50] Pts



1 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts



1 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts



1 Tiranoc Chariot @ 85 Pts


Total Roster Cost: 1996

10 Spearmen aren't going to do anything...even with Speed of Asur (SoA.) The banners on those units are pretty much a free 100 VPs for your opponent. If you're going to do min core, just take two units of 10 archers and be done with it.

As for Teclis being cheesy, with him and 2D3 extra power dice, you're looking at an average of 10 dice for Teclis (2 in the common pool, 4 for Teclis, 2 from staff and 2 from Banner.) If you really want to take advantage of his irresistable casting ability, each spell is going to need at least 3-4 dice a turn. This means he's only going to cast about 3 spells a turn, which isn't too bad. Sure they can't be stopped (assuming you cast irresistably,) but he is near 500pts. So I think he's fine.

Your list seems ok. Typically fragile, as all Elf armies tend to be. If you face a shooty army, take Life for Howler wind. If you face another magic heavy army, take High Magic for Drain Magic.

I personnaly think High Magic is pretty solid. Irresistable a Curse of Arrow Attraction with 4 Bolt Throwers and 20+ archers and watch the doomed unit explode. Have fun!

Zoned

One of Warhammer’s greatest virtues is that the movement phase is, generally speaking, the most important phase of the game. Battles are mostly won and lost there. A few armies can build very heavy magic and/or very heavy shooting armies which subvert this. Such armies tend to be quite static, and boring as heck. They turn the game into an extended session of Rock, Paper, Scissors, with no more excitement but much more time wasted.

Thus Teclis is typically going to be the cause of boring games. Either your magic will be dominant and it’s going to be your dice doing most of the winning, or your opponent will have an army sufficiently durable to slog through the magic and get to you, at which point your army will fold like a wet paper sack. Your particular build won’t fold quite as easily, as ranked units of Swordmasters are pretty tough, but it’s still mostly an unappealing prospect.

If you really want to use a substantial amount of magic, use a regular archmage (without the Book of Hoeth, preferably) with either the Standard of Sorcery or a second mage buddy. Use a real combat character or two (a BSB is nice), and try to work a bit more HTH in there. You can still pull out Teclis every once in a while for a nice change of pace, but unless your local group’s preferred form of play is pure Gouda, he’s not a good idea for regular use.

Change the spearmen to archers..... then you might think about taking the points saved and upgrading the chariot to a third repeater bolt thrower.... then you'll have a mean list.... you might even consider dropping the dragon princes for another unit of 14 swordmasters... but test that out... one mobile unit might serve you well.

If you have banner of sorcery, Teclis won't need any mage buddies. Bear in mind that due irresistables, the lesser mages will have the leftover dispelscrolls and dispel dice arrayed against them, so I think you'd do better by just using couple of fighty characters in addition to the big mage. Also if you want the cheap core, just take archers as said earlier. It's also worth thinking what lores you'll often use with Teclis. The gamewinning spells are often metal 6 and unseen lurker and pit from shadow, so you should have something to capitalize the lurker at least (dragon princes and chariots are good candidates for this).

I think people seem to forget, he has toughness 2 and no save.

Any bolt thrower, stone thrower, or cannon (or anything else that goes through ranks) can trounce him. Especially since these things usually have a very high range.
The only armies he is really good against are the ones with NO shooty (aka vampire counts)

JoeOrks wrote:I think people seem to forget, he has toughness 2 and no save.

So I didn't believe you and had to check the summary sheet. Yep, he actually is S2 T2

There's a local Eldar player wanting to go to 'Ard Boyz for fantasy (a game he's never played), and is thinking about Teclis-led HE. He was a little shocked that nobody local wanted to play against Teclis, Book of Hoeth lvl 4 and max bolt throwers ...

- Salvage

JoeOrks wrote:I think people seem to forget, he has toughness 2 and no save.

Any bolt thrower, stone thrower, or cannon (or anything else that goes through ranks) can trounce him. Especially since these things usually have a very high range.
The only armies he is really good against are the ones with NO shooty (aka vampire counts)

You realise that he can be put to units for shooting/magic protection? Only a crazed person would play Teclis in his list without a suitable bodyguard unit.
He's very allergic to hochland longrifles and failing the look-out-sir roll, though .

try useing the battle banner to be cheesy
but that ist seems to be fair