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title basically says everything. I've recently gotten really interested in their fluff and background, so I'm wondering how viable they are on the table. What units are good and which need to be avoided? Any help would be greatly appreciated

I'm still waiting for the new SM codex to be released so I'm using the Blood Angels codex for a while now.

My Space Army was always a fast and mobile army anyway so I found that the Blood Angels made it much easier to use, even more so because I could use all my fast attack slot for other models and field my assualt marines as troops giving me more fast moving models.

Also find the rules for having Death Company models helps make players choose units more fitting with a fast attack army and away from a vehicle heavy army.

the only thing I don't like is that you don't get Death Company for fielding Bike squadrons. But small price to pay.

Chaplains I feel are a must for a Blood angels, have tried Mephiston once and I'm not sure what to think of him. The other HQ charactors don't appeal to me so haven't tried them in my army, though I imagine they can be very good.

I think The DC is a nice touch to make this army different to Vanilla and Dark Angel Marine armies

Of course they're 'viable'. All armies are viable. You just need to learn how they work.

Blood Angels are great. I have an army configured to play as either Blood Angels or Chaos Space Marines and they're both fun to play.

Nurglitch wrote:Of course they're 'viable'. All armies are viable. You just need to learn how they work.

Maybe viable was a bad word to use.

What kind of layout would you use to take advantage of their special rules?

What units in their codex are worth their weight in gold? and which should be avoided like the plague?

why is the codex not viable i really dont know because it very wyird to play with. one reason say this is because the army is ether a assault army or shooting army but not really thoe because it all or nothing. dont ask me but not having to assault and an entire shooting phase to work on table top tactics.

there table tactics are sometthing to be desired is something out of a bad tactics book or they just not all jack up as there suppose to be.

Baals are great, singleton MM attack bikes are great, veteran assualt squads are very good but very expensive. I prefer tac squads with rhinos over assualt squads, or a mix. Assualters will lower your model count too much if you go the whole hog with them. Death Company of course rocks. And those are probably pretty much the only units you'll need to use.

Take whatever units you want to take, figure out how to make them work - trying to win by taking the 'right' units rather than taking the ones you like and using them properly is silly. Warhammer 40k ain't magic, and there's six turns, a mission, and a table full of terrain between any army list and victory.

My buddy plays BA, and he does fairly well with them, but it's not, IMO, an easy list to win tournaments with. Unlike DA, it has strong units that are truly exemplary: Baals, death company, attack bikes, and veteran assault squads.

The list lacks some of the old standbys from vanilla marines (las/plas, double ACs) but the other units do cover for that lack nicely.

Blood Angels are now a true niche army: there are a handful of builds, but they're not really marketed as a totally different army from Space Marines.

Once the scope of the game changes with the new edition it should be a power army again. Right now their teeth have been knocked out.

I say this because everything that the game is based around (las cannons and power fists) are harder to get in the BA list.

When all the armies have been evened out the strength of the list - like the abundance of meltas and the interesting vet squad options - will become much stronger.

Yeah, i'm with Blood Angel...

By the time you finish up building and painting, we will be really close to June. Once 5th comes out. Having a codex with a focus on fast hearty troop units with meltaguns (much better in 5th) and the death company being so good at killing troops, its just gonna be a solid codex.

And I'm with nurglitch too, after looking at the blood angel codex recently I have concluded that every unit in that list can "work". I would advise against buying anything that wasn't a basic trooper in multiples until you were sure exactly how you wanted to run them.

Don't hesitate with blood angels, by the time you are ready, they will be fun and good.

Blood for the Blood Goh..... err uhm... for Sanguinius or somesuch!!!

Blood for Sanguinius! Skulls for the Golden Throne!

Lormax has been running blood angles since the dawn of time. In their current incarnation he uses them to great effect. Chaplins are a must for HQ. Not only are they off the bat your best option, but they are also needed to keep the death company in line. And of course, nothing says loving like rerolling rending attacks. Jump packers can be had in abundance and with a reasonable assortment of special weapons (flamers and melta guns seem to be better options when compared to plasma pistols). Basing an army around jump packers with some devistators or other long ranged support seems to work well for him. The other option I've seen him run is rhino rush. He'll show up with something like 8 or 9 tanks in a 1850 (or maybe it was 2000...have to ask him) point game. It ends up being just too many tanks and too much blocked line of sight to really hit anything valuable. It works out great for objective based games. If you ask nicely, you might be able to coxe an army list out of him.

I prefer the Captain - having Leadership 10 for my combat squads is just so handy. That and I don't take Death Company, but that's moreso because I can't find a place for them in the Chaos Marine configuration of my Marine army.

Then I have a Librarian as second/alternate Head Quarters because the Psychic Hood is so useful against Tyranids, Chaos, Eldar, and other Space Marines!

The Chaplain would probably be handy against Orks, Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar, and Tau but I'm not that bothered (plus everyone and their mother takes one).

Wow, nurglitch do you just not field the free death company models that you paid for in your squads?

If you just didn't field them, I'd have to give you a lot of credit. It'd be like playing 200 points down in every game!

It's not as much as you'd think. I went with the Blood Angels list for my Loyalist Marines precisely because the Codex: Space Marine list cost more points for the same amount of models, and without the flexibility of Pistols and Rapid Fire weapons on the Tactical Marines (and Combat Squads, which are neat).

Wait, so you seriously don't field the free models you get? Why would you do that? Is it even legal?

You don't have to play to the point limit if you don't want to. Heck, you don't even have to deploy your whole army if you don't want to. I don't want to take a unit of Death Company when I play my Marines using the Blood Angels rules so I don't. I don't see what the problem here is.

I mean, I suppose I could, but then I'd probably need a Chaplain to look after them, and that would mean I'd have to decide between a Captain to give all my squads Leadership 10 (which is very useful since I like to use Combat Squads) and a Librarian to give me some defense against the Dark Arts. And then I'd need to buy them Jump Packs or a Rhino to help them keep up with and co-ordinate with the rest of my army. They just aren't part of my strategy, so I don't take them. I'm not saying other people shouldn't, just that I don't and I don't find it to be a handicap (playing as Chaos Marines and not having And They Shall Know No Fear, that's a damned handicap).

You crack me up. A unit of FNP Rending Furious Charge Marines that cost nothing (because you already paid for them) and give up no VPs--you're leaving that on the shelf? Even without jump packs or a Rhino they're useful, and jump packs are cheap. You must have immense confidence in your abilities or immense contempt for your opponents.

Or I just can't be arsed to buy, paint, and field a Death Company that fits my strategy (as described above). Either/or.

By all means though, tell me what I can do with them without a Chaplain or Jump Packs or a Rhino.

Phoenix wrote:Lormax has been running blood angles since the dawn of time. In their current incarnation he uses them to great effect. Chaplins are a must for HQ. Not only are they off the bat your best option, but they are also needed to keep the death company in line. And of course, nothing says loving like rerolling rending attacks. Jump packers can be had in abundance and with a reasonable assortment of special weapons (flamers and melta guns seem to be better options when compared to plasma pistols). Basing an army around jump packers with some devistators or other long ranged support seems to work well for him. The other option I've seen him run is rhino rush. He'll show up with something like 8 or 9 tanks in a 1850 (or maybe it was 2000...have to ask him) point game. It ends up being just too many tanks and too much blocked line of sight to really hit anything valuable. It works out great for objective based games. If you ask nicely, you might be able to coxe an army list out of him.

The rhino rush list I use is for 2000 points, has 9 vehicles and 2 attack bikes. It's been much more effective then I ever would have thought and I've tweaked it slightly every few games to make it that much more.

Nurg, no death company? Yur nuts, but hey, to each their own Whoever asked if it was legal, it sure is. You don't HAVE to take the DC if you don't want to. Why, by the way, would you pay points for a librarian that sucks? Leadership 9, which means you have the beat the opposing rolls on the hood by 2...aka 1/3 of the time you won't even have a chance to stop the power.

It's not nuts to avoid fielding a unit that doesn't fit your strategy, it's good sense. Likewise I take the Librarian because stopping the enemy's psychic power the other 2/3 is better than having the enemy's psychic power going off 3/3 of the time. Besides, he doubles as my Sorcerer when I'm field my Marine army as Chaos Marines.

robdark22 wrote:why is the codex not viable i really dont know because it very wyird to play with. one reason say this is because the army is ether a assault army or shooting army but not really thoe because it all or nothing. dont ask me but not having to assault and an entire shooting phase to work on table top tactics.

there table tactics are sometthing to be desired is something out of a bad tactics book or they just not all jack up as there suppose to be.

Is English a 2nd or 3rd language for you? If that's not the case, fix the grammar and spelling. You'll learn that here on Dakka, we tend to give more credence to posts that are well thought out and legible. Crap grammar and netspeak... not so much.

Look Nurglitch, they're a unit that costs nothing at all (in game terms) if you don't want it to, and can still, at the very least, claim or contest a table quarter or objective, or soak some shots. Add 5 pts per DC member and they become a real threat, even without the DC. I don't care what your strategy is, if you can't get 5 pts of utility out of a jump-packing Marine with all those abilities. . . . What am I saying? It's impossible not to get 5 pts of utility out of these guys, whatever your skill level.

Now, if your real reason is that you can't be bothered to paint them, I find that a little more understandable. Although they aren't exactly the most complicated things to paint.

BTW, it isn't the case that a Ld 9 Hood will stop psychic powers 2/3 of the time.

Of course they cost something - I have to put them on the board and co-ordinate them with the rest of my forces according to the strategy by which I've chosen the rest of my forces. The Black Rage will have them move directly towards the closest enemy unit unless shepherded by a Chaplain (which I don't have a use for) or Brother Corbulo (who I likewise don't have a use for). That gives them all sorts of opportunities for getting in the way of my other forces, or simply being led around by the nose. They may not cost points, but then neither does nothing and I prefer nothing to Death Company.

If I wanted to fit them into my army's strategy I would have to leave either my Captain or my Librarian at home, thereby either leaving myself more vulnerable to failing Pinning, Morale, and assorted Leadership tests, or leaving myself completely vulnerable to Psychic Powers (rather than just kind of vulnerable). That would open up the Head Quarters slot for the Chaplain who would make sure that the Death Company didn't go haring off into nowere distracted by a light skimmer or Jetbikes or whatnot, and would actually go where I wanted them and not get in the way of my army's shooting.

It's certainly possible to get negative utility out of the Death Company, and since I'm not interested in the capabilities that they have, or more exactly the capabilities that they have if I lose the capabilities of either my Librarian or my Captain, I'm not taking them.

How will they get in the way? We're not talking PEngines here. They're not going to block your shooting or turn into terrain.

They'll block my shooting at something if they're locked in close combat with it.

In the 5th edition they may block my shooting by simply being in the line of fire (or give the enemy a 4+ save, or whatever it actually turns out to be).

If you don't get them jump packs, how likely is that, really? By the time that happens, one would think that your army--a Blood Angels army, after all--would be getting stuck in already. And you did say you'd need Rhinos or jump packs to "help them keep up with and co-ordinate with the rest of my army", so I don't see how they're in front of your force getting in the way now. Besides, there should usually be a place you can dump them where they can't get in the way--right on your table edge, for example!

I take your point regarding 5th ed, but we are not playing 5th ed now. At least, most of us aren't.

I'm not actually trying to change your playstyle--it is a matter of indifference to me whether you handicap yourself or not--but I find your arguments for why having free DC can ever be a bad idea incredible.

It's plenty likely that troops without Jump Packs will get tied up in assaults, particularly where your enemy is trying to assault you first, such as Orks, Tyranids, Chaos Marines, Space Marines, etc.

Since they will move directly towards the closest enemy unit, they will immediately move forward of my army on the first turn, and where-ever my opponent wants to direct them. One place I can dump them where they can't get in the way is off my list.

If one thinks that a Blood Angels are would be assaulting alongside the Death Company, then one has a one dimensional view of the Blood Angels. Likewise if you find my arguments to be incredible, maybe you need to play with my army when it has a Death Company in it and find out for yourself. Who knows, maybe you'll see something I don't, but my experience with Death Company is hardly incredible (indeed, I presume experiences like mine are the reason that Death Company are not mandatory).

try using a stagger line formation. because at the angel you use them they be hard to tie up in assault. reason i say that is many time trying to cover the entire battle field is hard enought but having to fight someone on that entire battle field is entire different matter. what make blood angels so interesting the speed and firepower they hold avable in order to punch. the only problem you may face is the perfect offense instead of waiting for them...