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My friends and i have started to play with the rumored 5th edition rules and we've been making lists for them. This is my latest, which i have yet to test. all feed back is welcome.


HQ
Demon Prince 155
Wings
Mark of Slaanesh
Lash of Submission


Troops

10 Plague Marines 300
Champion
Power Fist
Plasma Gun x2


10 Plague Marines 300
Champion
Power Fist
Plasma Gun x2


6 Noise Marines 185
Blastmaster
Sonic Blaster x5


6 Noise Marines 185
Blastmaster
Sonic Blaster x5


6 Noise Marines 185
Blastmaster
Sonic Blaster x5


Heavy Support

3 Oblitorators 225

5 Havocs 180
Lascannon x3

5 Havocs 135
Heavy Bolter x4

Total
1850



So this list is meant to take all comers. I have 6 lascannons from the havocs and the oblits should deal with most tanks. the noise marines and oblits have enough fire powers to reduce a horde army in size so that my plague marines will be able to take their charge (which wont be all at once due to my lash prince). Oblits, blastmasters and plague marines should be able to deal with MEQs and battlesuits effectivly.

in 5th the army has 5 scoring units and 14 kill points. the most serious problem i see is lack of mobility. there isnt any speed to the army but moving doesnt reduce their effectiveness to greatly. the noise marines can opperate with assault weapons, the oblits are relentless and the plague marines can move about and fire (although at reduced range).

against mech armies (which i think will be the hardest match for this list) priority kill targets are transports then other tanks. with luck i could kill 2 transports and then keep their cargo back with lash until my army is ready to deal with them.

No need for 10 man plaguemarines, since you are scoring untill the last man and can have your special weapons anyway. Preferably another prince would be pretty nice.

the thing is 10 plague marines are insanely hard to shift for most armies. the only thing they fear is S8 AP3 pie plates. with the loss of kill zones they no longer fear harlies and with the rending nerf they no longer fear stealers or death company. 10 can easily take a charge so that my prince can counter charge. its also harder to outnumber 10 then 7 or 8. its not so much the number of special weapons im after, but the number of T5 FNP bodies.

the previous list i had had one less squad of noice marines and another lash prince. i found that, although the extra lash was nice he died too easily. a mob of orks will kill it eventually, all the anti-tank guns in the opposing army will be pointed at them and now that area terrain doesnt block LOS they are much harder to hide. also having 2 princes increases the number of kill points in my army, which is not good.

i think (although i dont know yet) that the other squad of noise marines will be more effective against the majority of armies and have the added bonus of reducing my KP.

he body count i too low to be fielding units of 10 plague marines though, they just soak up way too many points. essentially the best way to beat your army now is kill all of the noise marines, and the other components of your list, ignoring the plague marines, until your enemy can bring everything they have to bear on just them. games over after that. your better off to drop the plague marines to 7 each and then invest in some rhinos for the list since yours is not mobile by any means at all

Bastirous666 wrote:he body count i too low to be fielding units of 10 plague marines though

I cant quite see your reasoning behind this, would you mind explaining

Bastirous666 wrote:
essentially the best way to beat your army now is kill all of the noise marines, and the other components of your list, ignoring the plague marines, until your enemy can bring everything they have to bear on just them. games over after that.

youre right this is the best way to kill my army. its not necressarily easy to do however. horde armies will have to come through my plague marines to get to the rest of it not to mention that noise marines go first against most things in combat. static gun line armies will have a hard time shooting everything in my army and then gettting to objectives, if my plague marines dont block their line of sight to much of my army already, and oblits and DPs are tricky to kill. the biggest difficulty that i can forsee is mech armies simply out manuvering me.

Bastirous666 wrote:your better off to drop the plague marines to 7 each and then invest in some rhinos for the list since yours is not mobile by any means at all

i did think about this but what will happen is my rhino will get shot on the first turn by lascannon or lootas, give my opponent some kill points and then leave my finfantry to slog it accross the battle first anyway. the army does lack mobility but i think rhinos are a false ecomomy. raptors may be a better option.

your infantry isn't going to make it to the enemy infantry as is. they can deploy up to 12" then they have 3 turns + charge to make it to the enemy assuming that the enemy sets up exactly 12" in as well. that's a long time to be waiting for some of your guys to hit the enemy lines, and plenty of time for them to mow you down. and no oblts aren't hard to kill. lascannons put them down in one shot (5+ invul isn't going to work all the time) and plasma will mow them down nicely as well. i'd much rather have a havoc squad instead. also your noise marines are so expensive that killing 3 from each squad will be easy and rewarding points wise. all in all i just see the army as way too fragile. you have no bodies to soak fire, and yes your guys do have good saves/invuls but those won't save them forever.

also plague marines still count as dead if they make the feel no pain, so killing the squad or half of it may not take them off of the table, but the enemy still gets victory points for em'

everything in this army is similar, they just are small squads that cost a lot of points, and there are few of them, making it way easy for the enemy to soak you in fire, and claim enough victory points to win

also plague marines still count as dead if they make the feel no pain, so killing the squad or half of it may not take them off of the table, but the enemy still gets victory points for em'

Is this a 5th edition change???? I'm not sure where this is coming from.

under the "feel no pain" rules n the 40k rule book it says that even if the model made his feel no pain save that after he still counts as dead, but because of stature or adrenaline he continues to fight during this battle. however for working out victory points he counts as dead after the game as the model finally succumbs to his wounds and passes on. therefore if you make the feel no pain save you have to keep track of how many plague marines have made the save in the unit. then after the battle count however many feel no pain saves the sqaud made, and that many count as dead. therefore if there are enough kills counting feel no pain and plain dead to get half or the whole unit dead the opponent still gets victory point equivalent to which it is (half dead = 1/2 VP, all dead = full VP)

get it?

FNP means if you pass your FNP test nothing happens to the model.

It isn't "dead" until after the game.

It's just fine.

that's what i was saying

Bastirous666 wrote:your infantry isn't going to make it to the enemy infantry as is. they can deploy up to 12" then they have 3 turns + charge to make it to the enemy assuming that the enemy sets up exactly 12" in as well. that's a long time to be waiting for some of your guys to hit the enemy lines, and plenty of time for them to mow you down.

why would i try and make it into combat with a enemy infantry exactly? why couldnt i just shoot them? im better at shooting than in combat, so surely i'd be doing that. combat will occur when the enemy infantry moves towards me. in that case plague marines can take a charge very well and noise marines with I5 are enough to stike first against most things, and that combined with them being fearless means that they would be able to survive at least one round of combat before a counter charge.

Bastirous666 wrote:
and no oblts aren't hard to kill. lascannons put them down in one shot (5+ invul isn't going to work all the time) and plasma will mow them down nicely as well. i'd much rather have a havoc squad instead.

trouble with havocs is that they are best used when you tailor them to be effective against horde OR tanks. a 2 Las/2HB team just plain sucks because its not good at either. oblits on the other hand are good at both. lascannon to deal with heavy armour and plasma cannon to deal with horde.

Bastirous666 wrote:also your noise marines are so expensive that killing 3 from each squad will be easy and rewarding points wise. all in all i just see the army as way too fragile. you have no bodies to soak fire, and yes your guys do have good saves/invuls but those won't save them forever.

im not planning to just perade them up and down getting shot. they have guns too you know.

Bastirous666 wrote:
also plague marines still count as dead if they make the feel no pain, so killing the squad or half of it may not take them off of the table, but the enemy still gets victory points for em'

This is false. I quote from the rumoured 5th ed rule book, which is identical to the current 4th ed rules


FEEL NO PAIN
Some warriors are so blood-frenzied or tough that they can ignore injuries that would incapacitate even a battle-hardened Space Marine. If a model with this ability suffers an unsaved wound, roll a dice. On a 1, 2 or 3, take the wound as normal (removing the model if it loses its final wound). On a 4, 5 or 6, the injury is ignored and the model continues fighting. This ability cannot be used against weapons that inflict Instant Death (by having a high enough Strength or a special rule to that effect; even if the model is an Eternal Warrior) or against close combat weapons that allow no Armour Save (such as power fists, power swords, Dreadnought close combat weapons, rending attacks that roll a 6, etc).

no where in that (and by extension the current rules) does it mention that if you pass a FNP save the model counts as dead for the purposes of VP.

Bastirous666 wrote:
everything in this army is similar, they just are small squads that cost a lot of points, and there are few of them, making it way easy for the enemy to soak you in fire, and claim enough victory points to win

In the vast majority of 5th ed games VP will play little or no part in deciding who is the victor. Victory conditions will probably end up relying on capturing objectives or kill points.


ok so what do you suggest that i change in the list, keeping in mind that i want this to be a 5th ed army?

i'm sry about the FNP info then, as far as i knew it was always that way, guess it changed in 4th ed.

i just think that you can't dish out enough fire with your army as a whole. i think the body count needs to go up some to lend to not getting simply slaughtered. the body count is low enough that in scenarios that have objectives they merely have to blow your army away, and you won't be able to take any objectives.

but go ahead do whatever you want, i just wanted to throw my two cents in