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Ive been away from the game a long time but Ive always liked the fluff around the Sons. In reading the new Codex, they seem (at least in my eyes) better then in the past. I was thinking about a Rhino rush Sons force backed by 2 Defilers.

I would love to get some insite on this.

Thanks

Thousands Sons have increased damage output, but they can't take a lot in return, that and their assault potential is beyond poor.

Include a couple squads sure, but you're going to need more than just 2 defilers as back-up (they'll need it).

Rhino rush is a bad idea in 4th. I think people have been saying it'll be better in 5th, but I haven't really been keeping track of the rumours.

If you want to go Thousand Sons-heavy, you should at the very least have two winged DPs backing them up. Applying CC ability where and when you need it is priceless when the rest of your force is terrible at it.

Now thats an idea. Instead of Rhinos, use drop pods. Dont know how effective it would be though. I know nothing about 4th ed.

Ummm...Chaos can't use Drop Pods...DP's is Daemon Princes

Hmm I would rather have Drop Pods than Daemon Princes in my Chaos list tho. Dropping 10 Plague Marines into an enemy's rear line would be better than having a DP anyday.

skyth wrote:...DP's is Daemon Princes

I thouth it stood for double....oh well never mind. Stupid internet and it's acronyms and abreviations. Why can't people just type out what they mean and avoid confusion. I'm going to go drink my prune juice now. *Grumble, rant, rave*

Speaking of jargon, what exactly is mean by "viable" in the context here?

T-Sons are an excellent addition to a well rounded force.
Armor 3, 5+invul. and AP3 bolters that can rapid fire, even if they move are sick!
Their attacks suck, however, so you want to stay away from an ALL T-Sons army, unless you're really into the fluff.

Stay away from Defilers.
Until they get Armor 13 or Indirect fire, they'll always blow 100% (one of those 2 options will reduce the defiler to 50% blowage).

Eric

I might use Vindicators for support instead of Defilers, just for the added durability. Alternately, predators might work too. I don't think rhinos are really needed, since 1kSons can walk and shoot, which makes me think they might as well do so as much as possible.

Rhinos give 1k Sons a surprising range on their drive by that shouldn't be underestimated. 12" rhino move + 2" hop out + 12" range = 26" rapid fire AP3 death OR 12" + 2" + 24" = 38" single shot AP3 death (due to S&P).

Had that trick ruin my 1k Chaos Tau's parade a few times now.

- Salvage

I suppose they are what, 35 points in the new codex? That isn't too bad then. Still, being able to shoot ~25-30" after hoofing it covers nearly all the board if they are deployed in the center.
I dunno, just knocking around ideas. I don't even play Chaos yet.

I didn't say that out loud did I? Bloody hell, back to the Chamber of Repentant Flagellation with me. And my pubes had just recently grown back in...

Is that better or worse that the Chamber of Repentant Flatulation?

Stormtrooper X wrote:Is that better or worse that the Chamber of Repentant Flatulation?

I totally didn't want or need to hear that...

and by the way, the Thousand Sons have 4+ inv saves

Stormtrooper X wrote:Is that better or worse that the Chamber of Repentant Flatulation?

Nah, that diner doesn't give us the problem any more. I think it was just that one time.

Whew.... rough night though. I thought the cat was done for.

It's been my experience that the 1k son's either do really well, or completely fall flat on their face. (An experince where I lost an enitre 1500 pt force to a squad of 10 ninja clowns in two turns comes to mind.) Granted I"m also still learning to use them.

I've always loved the thousand sons, though I don't so much like their current rules (the extra wound was so nice). When I pay them I usually run 2 squads in 2 landraiders so I can get up, rapid fire and charge. Land raiders are also better at hiding things like a demon prince and such. The rest of the army can be anything else really but 2 landraider/2 ts squads are solid.

I'll second the Land Raider combination. Possessed Land Raiders are a nightmare for people, combining the carrying capacity of Rhinos, the firepower of Havocs, and the armour of Monoliths into a flexible and mobile platform.

If i was to use land raiders i'd give them to bezerkers or possessed, something that can use it's close combat potential. 1K son's i'd just stick in a rhino, i think you need to use their 24inch shoot + move advantage. try and engage an enemy MEQ from range, with them before charging them with something else!

Hm. I don't know that I'd use TSons for charging. Bringing them up into range and having them set to take a charge, yes. Charging them into CC? Not my tactic.

Charging a weakened squad after rapid-firing them with Inferno Shells is a very powerful tactic for Thousand Sons. Why would anyone ever want to "take" a charge? Sure you don't want to be bogged down in close combat, but being able to rapid fire and charge isn't an ability you should ignore.

I'm not usually too fond of landraiders because you're paying a lot of points for a vehicle that could pop to a lucky lascannon shot, and which has a mixed role- if you’re using the lascannons you’re not moving, and if you’re zooming up with assault troops you’re not using the lascannons. Usually you’re better off with a Rhino and a Predator for less points. That said, if you do field one, I’d definitely put a real assault unit (like Berserkers, or Noise Marines) in it, as opposed to T-Sons.

T-Sons do fine in a Rhino. Getting Entangled sucks, but the threat range of the disembark + rapid fire is not to be sneezed at. If the sorcerer has Wind of Chaos, they can also do great things with that, as disembarking gives him lots of flexibility for best template placement. Or you can even shoot it out the top
hatch.

In a T-Sons/Tzeentch-themed army, I’d definitely consider Terminators for assaulty goodness, and Sorcerer and/or Daemon Prince for HQ. The 4+ invulnerable is great.

I like to use Warptime on my sorcerer, as the enemy rarely wants a second round of rapid fire. Whether I charge or not depends on whether or not I've got my warptime up on that particular round (if I started the round in a transport, obviously I can't)

Rhino Rush-very dependent on game conditions. Some tournaments with preset terrain, there isn't any. Then, you are praying you get first turn or you may have many DEAD Rhinos. See the recent Eldar vs. Marine battle report by Blackmoor.

Thousand Sons have a 4+ Invulnerable with Mark of Tzeentch. You are also slow and purposeful. Aspiring Sorcerers are interesting.

They are LESS than 30 points, which is terminator cost.

Short Answer: any Chaos army with 6-9 Obliterators and a couple of Daemon Princes has a good start. Better players than I have proposed coupling this starting package with a mix of Thousand Sons and Noise Marines-to provide improved anti horde capacity.

Nurgle marines are fun because they have 'feel no pain'. Not as good as We'll be Back, because they do count as DEAD at the end of the game. But, they hang around during the game on a 4+.

Thousand Sons changed a lot from 3rd edition to 4th edition.

In third edition the shrugged off bolter fire, and just about anything other than the heaviest weapons. What killed them were the strength 8+, AP 3+ weapons that instant-killed them. They also worked best as an assault unit with 16 wounds protecting a tooled up aspiring champion with a powerfist.

In 4th edition things have changed. Instead of fearing the high strength, high AP weapons, Thousand Sons now are partially immune to them. But now they die just as easy as regular marines to small arms fire. They also lost the tooled up aspiring champion, and in it’s place you get a sorcerer which is basically just a Sgt. with a power weapon.

So how do you use them now? You generally want them in a shooting army. They compliment that build very well, with adding AP 3 bolters at 24” (it sounds better then it is though, 9 TS marines shooting at 12”-24” will kill only 3, T4 models). They are also durable so they have some staying power in a fire-fight. If you can get away from chaos=assault you can build a formidable shooting army around them. Add in Oblits, Havocs and some shooting elites, and you should be ok. Also, a Lord with a demon weapon or a sorcerer with warptime and doombolt can do some damage.


Remember to stay out of assault, because that is not where your strength lies. You might be able to rush up and rapid fire, but you might not want to get close to a counter assault.

That's why you assault first. Your Sorceror either wades in with his Force Weapon for big stuff, Warps Time for hordes, or Spawnifies one of the opposition just to cause trouble.

It really depends on what you're assaulting, doesn't it? For some units, the extra turn of combat is more deadly; for others, getting the charge (and possibly shooting before it) is. For instance, you're probably better off charging Harlies, but against Tac Marines with a Fist, it's better to hold off.

Of course this ignores all kinds of other factors; the point is that there isn't one right choice for every situation.

Of course there isn't, but there is a right choice for every situation, and a unit of Thousand Suns can help you with that right choice in every situation, particularly if they have a ride like a Land Raider.

Nurglitch wrote:That's why you assault first. Your Sorceror either wades in with his Force Weapon for big stuff, Warps Time for hordes, or Spawnifies one of the opposition just to cause trouble.

And....he can only have one of those powers?

Nurglitch:

Of course there isn't, but there is a right choice for every situation, and a unit of Thousand Suns can help you with that right choice in every situation, particularly if they have a ride like a Land Raider.

What does it even mean for a unit to "help you with that right choice"?