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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/03 15:58:05
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So my girlfriend was having a hard time chosing a WHFB army. After lots of tactical arguments, she decided that the High Elves were aesthetically most pleasing. Thus, since the release of 7th HE, we're thinking about the approach. She wants to be able to play decently with her first purchases and wondered if the battalion box would suffice. Aside from having a 30€ gain there, I highly doubt the usefulness of the Silver Helms. The Bolt Thrower, spears and bowmen are all very useful, I reckon.
My browsing of the HE suggestions almost always include: fill your core with units bowmen of 10, fill your rares with bolt throwers, fill your specials with Swordmasters of 1x7. Then use every possible hero/lord slot. Other units I have high in regard are spearmen and lions. Dragon princes seem very decent too.
Now the questions: Is the batallion box a decent enough starting article?
Are the Silver helms worth anything?
If not, are they easy to convert to dragon princes?
What ARE the best things to purchase and aim at?
Thanks in advance.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/03 16:03:15
Subject: Re:Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
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Just from playing against them I would also like to recommend the use of eagles. They are great for messing with other armies seige weapons and are something you seem to have missed in your above post. Most HE I play against have them in their army for exactly that reason.
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DQ:80+S+++G+MB++I+Pw40k96#++D++A++/sWD-R++++T(T)DM+
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GENERATION 5: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/03 16:10:03
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Oh yeah, the thing is, two years ago: I was collecting WE, and I was quite annoyed I couldn't get any eagle. I couldn't order online and I didn't feel like paying more for a WE eagle with lord. And then I realized that HE players must have even more trouble, as they could only get a WE flavored eagle with a silly WE highborn/lord. That, in short, is why I seemingly ignore the very existence of the unit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/03/03 16:11:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/03 16:20:58
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Dakka Veteran
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Keep in mind that everyone has there own style of play. So while taking min core archers and 4x RBT would be effective, it's also very boring and wouldn't suit a player who likes the cut and thrust of close combat.
As such, the Battalion box is a great starting point to determine a player's style of play since it has a little bit of everything. Of course, you could just proxy the units before you buy them as well.
Silver Helms make good MSU (5-6 guys with shields and musician) cav units due to their relatively cheap cost and higher movement. Since HE can take 6 specials at 2000pts they rarely compete with the other special choices unless you take a heavy chariot army. I personnaly would not use them as a hammer unit since they lack any real punch and don't have access to a magic banner.
I wouldn't imagine Silver Helms are particularly easy to convert into Dragon Princes. Depending on your gaming group, how extensive your conversions are may not matter. I do love the Dragon Prince models and I would just buy them rather than clumsily convert my own to save a few bucks.
Most popular builds for High Elves tend to have the Archmage lead the army. The High Magic list has alot of spells that synergize well with other components of the army. As far as Special units go I would take White Lions first as they hit hard, have good protection vs shooting, but most importantly are Stubborn. Combine that with the Lion Banner so that they can't be autobroken by Fear and a nearby BSB and you have a nigh unbreakable, resilient, and hard hitting unit.
Good gaming!
Zoned
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/03 16:21:00
Subject: Re:Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Fresh-Faced New User
Glasgow, Scotland
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Spearmen can be better than some people say. Take fairly large units and protect their flanks and they are really quite capable.
Silver Helms are nice models and good fun to paint, but there is little real reason to use them in an army other than that. Dragon Princes are better.
I find Sea Guard to be quite a good and under rated unit. The cost a point more than Bowmen and merely have bows rather than long bows but double up as Spearmen in combat making them very versatile.
Swordmasters are of course great, though I cannot understand why people are going for seven in particular. Phoenix Guard are also good incidentally. Their 4+ ward save means that unlike other High Elves they cannot pass for paper. Hit allright in close combat too. And causing Fear is always nice.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/03 16:51:22
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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7 would make the most attacks to 5 25 mm based infantry models. That way you have 14 S5 hits against a unit with a minimum of points. Ranks won't matter, because most likely they won't be able to hit back and their +3 rank bonus won't cover the loss in wounds.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/03 17:02:38
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Dakka Veteran
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With T3 and 5+ armour, don't expect those 7 Swordmasters to get into combat untouched by shooting or magic. Even though it's only 105pts, for many armies it's an easy 105 points to earn with a single magic/shooting phase. I would take 14 (7x2) or 18 (6x3) to add some bodies and some static combat resolution.
Zoned
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/03 17:38:23
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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But then again, aren't the BT's and the archers there to get rid of those threats?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/03 17:46:54
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Basically, the HE army has some of the best elite infantry in the game. Pair this with great shooting power and you have a great defensive army. Honestly, spearmen who strike first regardless of charging have no reason to move their 20 man block at all, they can just hang back and shoot the crap out of enemies until they get to close combat where they can butcher them.
To me the HE seem to be a very static army, contrary to common beliefs. But it depends on how you want to play them
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SM- Lets roll to see who goes first
Nob- Urgh...ok, I got a 6
SM- Oops, looks like I got an 8, so I go first
Nob- You got a 8 on a 6 sided die?
SM- Um, yep.
Nob- Space marines.....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/03 17:49:11
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Dakka Veteran
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20 archers and 4 RBTs are nice. They can deal with enemy missile units. However, there are lots of armies that can deal with your shooting and 7 man Swordmaster units. To name a few -
-skink/salamander heavy Lizardmen
-gun line Dwarves with Thorek
-Brettonian RAF
-SAF skaven
Of course, all these armies can deal with 14 or even 18 Swordmasters, too. Which is why I wouldn't take Swordmasters in the first place and take White Lions, who get around the strengths of those armies much better. YMMV.
Zoned
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/04 00:36:32
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Dakka Veteran
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I am a girl who started Fantasy with High Elves abeit awhile ago back when the appeal was mythical creatures like Imrik on a Dragon as well as Unicorns and Eagles and Alarielle the Everqueen and her handmaidens were some of my favorites.
I would ask her what units she likes and go from there. Its her army after all.
I find I really like dragons and they are quite effective if you are good with them so as you expand that army you might want to get a dragon. I actually like the old S type dragons better then the new ones because they are easier to carry in a case although the new one looks pretty nice.
I really don't like the numbers for the Battalion set. You want like 15 or 20 spearman, and archers go in blocks of 10 and silver helms really are inferior to dragon princes. If you do field a unit it should be a unit of 5 or 6 and not 8 so not sure if the Battalion set is really that good a buy.
Definately should get some Dragon Princes they are really nice in groups of 5 or 6 or a large block of 9 with standard and battle standard bearer. I recommend at least 1 Eagle if not 2 for march blocking, mage hunting and what not and the rest Bolt Throwers. Mage set and the Standard Bearer / Prince set are not bad sets to get as well. Core really depends I go with the 2 x 10 archers but the way sets are set up you end up having to buy 2 boxes of archers to get 20 which is sort of silly but it makes you have to spend more money which Games workshop likes. Maybe try and split a second box with someone starting out or who needs more archers. Elite infantry are pretty decent. Swordmasters, Pheonix Guard and White Lions all really depend on your play style and what you want to do. Swordmasters are great if you can get them into combat fast. Pheonix Guard are good because of fearless and their 4+ ward save makes them a tarpit and a good place to place an archmage or Teclis who is a good buy because he is such a powerful mage. The white lion chariot is also pretty cool, it is slightly slow and a little vulnerable but if you have a dragon for them to shoot at it is pretty nice as it also causes fear and has 6 str 5 attacks + d6 str 5 impact hits. Tiranoc Chariots are also nice.
I would aim for a 1000 point list at first then flesh things out to 1500 and then 2000/2250 It can be really overwhelming to build and paint many models at once.
Ebay actually is a good place to look for minis if you don't want to pay retail. I got a good chunk of my minis on ebay for 40% or more off retail and they even come assembled and primed for me much of the time which sometimes is bad if I actually want to do some modding and customization but good if they just are troops that I really don't want to spend a ton of time on.
I am assuming she likes to paint because I find painting and modding custom characters is really fun sometimes more so then playing the game. Ebay is a good choice to buy a lot for moding as it probably comes with extra stuff you can use for modding.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/04 11:42:26
Subject: Re:Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Hey Avariel, great advice there.
"I would ask her what units she likes and go from there. Its her army after all." Good way to remind me to ask her what she thinks is the prettiest unit and go from there. I made the mistake to keep asking what she wanted her main strategy to be.
Speaking of which: she doesn't like too big blocks. So we have to look into making it as skirmishy as possible (I told her to go ogre, but nooooo, ugly fatties weren't her cup of tea, eventhough she finds me attractive...ah...conundrums)
Now I have to ask something else: Why doesn't anyone (or almost anyone) mention the Lothern Seaguard? Spearmen that give the enemy a reason to come closer or get shot. If you can trick them into charging you in the front, you get to shoot them, and then strike first in 3 rows. That's 20 possible hits before they could even touch you in one charge.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/05 00:39:33
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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There's a reason no one mentions seaguard.... point cost. Believe it or not, but 10-14 str 3 shots isn't going to make an enemy do anything. with 14 shots, you hit on 3's -1 for long range= 7 hits. Then ,against a T4 opponent, you wound on 5's=2.33 wounds. Follow this up with most things having a 5+ save=1.55 dead models a turn. Seeing as how you're paying 13 points sea guard ( if you take the shield), that's 4 points more a model than regular spearmen, and since you'll want a unit of 21, that's 84 more points a unit than regular spearmen. So you're paying 84 points for 1.55 dead enemy models a turn..... do you ever think they'll make their points back? Chances are the answer is "no".
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Angron- crushing the theme and fluff of armies one horde at a time.
-The Trooper |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/03/11 13:50:48
Subject: Suggestions for my GF starting WHFB with HE?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So she decided she found the rbt's pretty, dragons prettier, eagles prettier, lion chariots, dragon princes and swordmasters. Couldn't be too hard, now could it? Although I'm looking up to ordering those eagles online.... *sigh*
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