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Maybe this has already been brought up, but I haven't seen anything about it on the forum. Maybe you guys could enlighten me. I am an ork player and I'm a bit confused by something.

It seems like there is a discrepency as to the classification of the ork choppa between the 40K rulebook and the Ork codex. In the codex, it says that the choppa is a regular melee weapon, but in the rulebook under weapons in the assult phase the Choppa is said supposed to be a special melee weapon and force an armor save of plus four. On the website and other places the choppa is said to be "extra rippy" and thus more effective than other melee weapons.

What rule do you guys follow with the choppa?

The rules in the ork codex are newer and more specific, and pretty pretty clear about choppas being plain old close combat weapons. Sorry..

The previous Ork Codex had special rules for Choppas, which is what the rulebook is referring to.

Yep, in the old codex choppas were what is commonly refered to as heavy CC weapons.

This was dropped in the new codex, I have read the reasoning for it, could be in the codex but it could also have been in a WD.

The jest of it was that the designer decided it did not feel right as the choppa would have a huge effect on heavilly armoured targets but no effect on poorly armoured ones.

As far as I can remember he dropped it in favor of the furious charge rule and a points drop.

Its sad, nothing was more fun than seeing termies flee in terror before a green wave however I tend to agree from a gamebalance point of view.

Darn. I guess it keeps them from being close combat gods. But doesn't that mean they are pretty much useless in cc against SM?

It's not much different than before in cc vs. SM. You hope you roll a whole bucket of attacks that results in a lot of wounds and some failed saves. Previously, you had fewer boyz and were hoping they rolled less than a 4, now it's more boyz and hoping they roll under a 3.

As a long-time ork player, I'm fine with the change.

Skaskull wrote:Darn. I guess it keeps them from being close combat gods. But doesn't that mean they are pretty much useless in cc against SM?

Not at all! Under the old rules, a charging ork had a 1/3 chance of wounding with each hit (S3 vs T4) and a 1/2 chance of bypassing the 4+ save. Under the new rules, a charging ork has a 1/2 chance of wounding (S4 vs T4) and a 1/3 chance of bypassing the 3+ save. In other words, charging orks are now exactly equally effective against MEQs as they were under the old rules. Against terminators they are not as good, and against most other troops they are better. On subsequent turns each ork is somewhat inferior against MEQs under the new rules, but the lower point cost per ork more than makes up for this.

I am with dietrich on this one...as my choppas only ever seem to work on terminators under the old codex.

shirou wrote:

Skaskull wrote:Darn. I guess it keeps them from being close combat gods. But doesn't that mean they are pretty much useless in cc against SM?

Not at all! Under the old rules, a charging ork had a 1/3 chance of wounding with each hit (S3 vs T4) and a 1/2 chance of bypassing the 4+ save. Under the new rules, a charging ork has a 1/2 chance of wounding (S4 vs T4) and a 1/3 chance of bypassing the 3+ save. In other words, charging orks are now exactly equally effective against MEQs as they were under the old rules. Against terminators they are not as good, and against most other troops they are better. On subsequent turns each ork is somewhat inferior against MEQs under the new rules, but the lower point cost per ork more than makes up for this.

Exactly. The same damage on the charge + 2/3 the cost = 50% increase in killiness per point spent.

On subsequent rounds they're actually equal. Old choppas would mean half of all wounds would kill, and 1/3rd of all hits would wound. And half of their attacks would hit. That equals one dead Marine for every 12 Ork attacks. Under the new rules it takes 18, but 18/12 is the same as 9/6, their old to new points cost differential. HOWEVER, extra boys mean more boys alive to swing by the combat starts (usually after their unit gets shot at least once), so that swings it in favor of the new boys. ALSO, against anyone who doesn't have a 3+ or better save, the new boys are a living nightmare in combat, because they're exactly as killy for 2/3 the points.

The only situation in which the new boys lose out is against 2+ saves. But that's why all Nobs take Powerklaws.

For tournaments the choppas have become slightly less powerfull as 90%+ tournament armies seem to be 3+ save armies but its not really that much of a drop.

Cheeper boyz meen you will get larger units allowing you to sustain more wounds to the unit.

The upped strength on the charge will meen that on the charge you will do as good damage but once that initial fighting is over you will become considerably weaker.

In friendly games you will be more likelly to meet oponents that are not 3+ save armies and in those battles the changes are great.

Like the other long time ork players I have no problems with the switch, I always felt the rules poorly designed under 3rd edition really prefering a -1 save mod but thats a different issue.

Im fine with the changes and find the new codex very interesting... naturally there are issues with it, mainly rules issues but they will be cleared upp in time.
I have had long and anoying talks about how the mob rule is suposed to work but they are not for now.

Thankfully the mob rule is dead.