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@1750 where 3 pieces of 12"X12" area terrain will be placed in the dead center of a standard table. Looking for advice on list config. as I have never faced a true GODZILLA before and this one will most likely have 7 or 8 MC's and about 35 stealers. There is a chance it could have 2 or 3 thropes for 1 MC.
I have pretty much any unit in a vanilla marine list. The only thing I don't have is drop pods (which would be very appropriate). I have three lists that I like, but I do not want to put them up to bias the question, what would you build? I will say this, I am leaning toward terminators in either a Lysander wing type config or one big assault squad in a crusader. Thanks!

Drop pods are the worst thing vs Gozilla lists IMO.

With the numbers you are talking about, am I correct this is a 2000 point game?

Not sure why your tournament organizer is giving such a boon to assault armies, but whatever...

Do you know if the stealers are bare (i.e. 5+ save) or not?

I'll toss up a idea in a minute.

So the Librarians can rip the heart out of stealer squads or take on MCs.

They'll also help toss out fury in turn 1-3.

The dreads are backup for the tactical squads, who might as well take all the AP2 weaponry they can since they'll only be able to fire once.

The Vindicators will fire until destroyed or they lose their weapon. If he runs a gunwall, what you want is for the blast to scatter so any stealers hiding behind the wall will get hit.

Given the cover, your land speeders will be used to run up and try and zap a MC dead with the multimelta (yes, it should be down to 1 wound) and fry any nearby stealers with the heavy flamer.

It's a vehicle heavy list, but that's what Tyranids suck at killing. The dreads and speeders need to hide until someone is in range you want to smoke, but the vindis should come out as soon as the Nids are in range. You won't have alot of time to kill the Nids, but being able to drop high strength weapons where you need them should give you a fighting chance.

2000 Pts - Space Marines Roster

1 Epistolary @ 191 Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Force Weapon; Fury of the Ancients; Psychic Hood; Veil of Time
1 Combat Shield @ [10] Pts
1 Familiar @ [10] Pts
1 Familiar @ [0] Pts
1 Jump Pack @ [20] Pts
1 Psychic Hood @ [0] Pts
1 Terminator Honors @ [15] Pts

1 Epistolary @ 191 Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Force Weapon; Fury of the Ancients; Psychic Hood; Veil of Time
1 Combat Shield @ [10] Pts
1 Familiar @ [10] Pts
1 Familiar @ [0] Pts
1 Jump Pack @ [20] Pts
1 Psychic Hood @ [0] Pts
1 Terminator Honors @ [15] Pts

1 Dreadnought @ 105 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Storm Bolter; Assault Cannon

1 Dreadnought @ 105 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Storm Bolter; Assault Cannon

1 Dreadnought @ 105 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Storm Bolter; Assault Cannon

4 Tactical Squad @ 100 Pts
Bolter (x2); Plasmagun (x1); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 100 Pts
Bolter (x2); Plasmagun (x1); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 100 Pts
Bolter (x2); Plasmagun (x1); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 100 Pts
Bolter (x2); Plasmagun (x1); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 100 Pts
Bolter (x2); Plasmagun (x1); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 100 Pts
Bolter (x2); Plasmagun (x1); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 75 Pts
Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer (x1)

1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 75 Pts
Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer (x1)

1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 75 Pts
Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer (x1)

1 Vindicator @ 155 Pts
Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter; Power of the Machine Spirit

1 Vindicator @ 155 Pts
Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter; Power of the Machine Spirit

1 Vindicator @ 155 Pts
Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter; Power of the Machine Spirit

Total Roster Cost: 1987

Edit: Fixed the Librarians.

Well, the list looks really good.
But why giving the Librarians fear of darkness because the Nids will not run, and if they run, you already won.
Better give them fury of the ancients, its mean against Warriors and Raveners.

Sorry did I click fear instead of fury? lol it's early. It's supposed to be fury.

Fixed the Librarians.

As I understand it, zilla nids love huge blocks of terrain at the center of the table. It lets them park their MCs in range of everything (especially dakkafexes) while not losing cover, while keeping stealers in counterassault range but out of LoS.

Just out of curiosity, why is the nid player being allowed to stack the table setup so much in his own favor?

Yeh thats quite ridiculous...

Dude, take a 1' (yes, foot) by 3' BUILDING and put it in the middle of the table...and not have your opponent punch you in the face. Saw it, not too long ago. I found it quite funny for a 'friendly' game.

Great list, Stelek. That'll mash 'em good.

I don't think this is for a tourney. This looks like a friendly that's got some built-in "givens".

Still trying to figure out why everybody thinks ass cannon are the be all be all item for the marine list to have. So what if you roll that all mighty six, the chance to get it is rare and if you are building a list soly on trying to get that almighty six its going to fail.

Best thing to do is look over the boards and read up on the gear that nidzilla players bring to the table.

1mc walker with venom and barb, guard

1mc flyrant save of 2plus gear pending

3x dak fex Ap 3 drop these
2 x gun fex, ap 2 needed to kill these, gear bard, venom
3x zones
x amount of genstealers.


One dev sqaud at 10 men with four missle launchers with the support of a techmarine. (see signum)

Support this unit with an odd moving AP 2 item so that you will be able to nock out a dakfex a turn with ease.

Assault squad 10 men Power fist, 2x flamers to help deal with genstealers before you assault and clean up.

pref bodies

Tactical units ten men with two plasma, flamer, melta guns in rhinos

2x tactical, 2 plasma guns

2x tactical, 2 melta
Rhino x armour smoke.

Maybe a speeder or two with heavy bolter to do some cleaning up if needed.

Rest of your list is your call.




As far as terrian, you should be able to set it up how you like per most the rules. You just need to read over the RTT rules and setting up terrian. Most of the time its a matter of who wins the role off to see who places the first item.

Put this down on the table and tell him to S*ck it. I've done this before to those people who like to build the "wall o' terrain" in the middle of the table..... it hasn't lost once. 16 Assault Cannons= 64 Shots= 42.67 Hits, of which 10.67 are rends= 2.66 dead MC's a turn, just off of rends. Then, there's a remaining 32 hits, of which 16 wounds, and 2.67 unsaved wounds= a total of 13.34 unsaved wounds, and 3.335 dead MC's a turn just from AC's. Top that off with 6 heavy bolters= .67 unsaved wounds, 15 Storm bolters=.55 unsaved wounds, and 10 bolters=.19 unsaved wounds for a grand total of 14.75 unsaved wounds, and 3.69 dead MC's a turn from shooting. If you turn those shots onto stealers, you're looking at 10.67 rends, and 26.67 regular wounds from AC's, then 8 wounds from heavy bolters, 10 wounds from storm bolters, and 3.33 wounds from bolters, for a total of 58.67 dead genestealers in one round of shooting. It should be able to deal with anything he can throw at you.

Master-130
-Power Fist, Storm Bolter, Terminator Armor
4 Terminator Command-200
-2 Assault Cannons

Captain-115
-Power Fist, Storm Bolter, Terminator Armor
4 Terminator Command-200
-2 Assault Cannons

5 Terminators-240
-2 Assault Cannons

5 Terminators-240
-2 Assault Cannons

5 Terminators-240
-2 Assault Cannons

5 Scouts-75

5 Scouts-75

2 Landspeeder Tornadoes-160
-2 Heavy Bolters, 2 Assault Cannons

2 Landspeeder Tornadoes-160
-2 Heavy Bolters, 2 Assault Cannons

2 Landspeeder Tornadoes-160
-2 Heavy Bolters, 2 Assault Cannons

A Whirlwind supported by two Lascannon armed Devastator squads might be fun. Add in three Dreadnoughts with Lascannon/Missile Launchers, and some Missile Launcher/Melta Gun Tactical squads and you may never have to face that list again.

Well off the top my head I would say that it could help to take a few transports (bare rhinos) just so that you have some of your own terrain. ; ) The rhinos will need some smoke launchers. I would take two Dev squads (six Marines each) with 4x HB per unit. You will need to open up the MC wall so that your heavy bolters can target all the 'stealers. For that I would take lots of small tactical squads with las/plas. If you could fit in five six man tactical squads and take a Master for Rites of battle that will (1) give you the killing power you need to take down the MCs and (2) rolling on Ld10 for all your little shooty units means chances are they won't break from taking morale checks following enemy shooting. Next I would take two small assault squads (6 Marines each) with 2x flamer each and give the sergeants leading them combi-flamers. The sergeants should have power fists as well. The two assault squads are for cleanup to finish off any 'stealers your HBs don't kill first and the power fists will help to finish off MCs with two or less wounds. The Master should have a jump pack so that he can run with the assault squads... I would equip him with a pair of lightning claws, admantium mantle and a combat shield. If you have any points left over take a six man Dev squad with 4x ML or a whirlwind as Nurglitch has suggested.

- G

Angron-that list is kick-ass. Pun intended..........

Love Termies.
Not looking forward to
Codex-Nerf(Redux)

Angron's list is an example of why SM codex will get hit with the nerf bat.

- G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Angron's list is an example of why SM codex will get hit with the nerf bat.

- G

I'm looking forward to it, actually.

I like to think of 5th edition as the renaissance of the Xenos.

Which is pretty much all I play, so I'll enjoy seeing the good old battleforce armies across the table.

They've always sucked, they'll just not be tweakable so they'll be horrendous.

Good fun in my mind, nerfing smurfing.

The deal is this guy can bring any army he wants to fight with as long as it is TYRANID. He knows he is playing my marines, I know he has shown up with the same list. Classic GODZILLA with stealers. Now he can change the whole friggin' list, but it is unlikely. As far as why the terrain is placed like that, I suppose Flavius Infernus hit the nail on the head (read his response). He does this everytime because players place the terrain before the battle.

Tarval and GBF
I made a list with elements from your two posts including devs (2 heavy bolter, one missile launcher with techmarine), combat tacs with lascannons, Master, Librarian and some speeders and attack bikes.

The problem is that the way the terrain is placed, if I sit there with static elements, it takes him 3 rounds to walk into the woods and he will get the first shot as the terrain is 12" deep area terrain and placed in such a way that nobody can get shots from the corners. That leaves with me basically 1 round of fire before the stealers fleet and assault the gun line no matter how far back they are. Not enough time to kill 30+ stealers and 24-28 toughness 6 3+ save wounds. My strategy was to close the distance to him so I could initiate fire on turn 2.

This is a wacky idea I toyed with and actually made a list for similar to Angrons list:
VANILLA MARINES @1750
Scout 4x10 w/ 9 sniper rifles, missile launcher
Attack bikes 2x3 w/heavy bolter
Master w/ term armor, powerfist, storm shield
Term command 1x4 w/ ass cannon x2
Epistolary w/ term armor, storm shield
Term command 1x4 w/ ass cannon x2

Infiltrate the scouts on the sides of his deployemnt zone, therefore eliminating the terrain in the middle of the field bull and targetting the MC's early on with sniper rifles and missile launchers. Turboboost the attack bikes up the sides to get shots round 2. Deep strike the termies to finish stealers and assault MC's with pf's.

Another list involves something Nurglitch mentioned, whirlwinds, but three of them to smoke stealers for two rounds. Use scouts (less of them) like above, and deepstrike termies (more of them) like above. VEry similar to Angrons list, just substitute whirlwinds for the speeders and walah!
The problem with the scouts and the termies is the infiltrate rule (not gaurenteed) and obviously the reserves deep striking variable.

The thrid list involved a Land Raider Crusader with a termie chappy and 7 termie thunderhammers as a centerpeice with speeders, combat tacs with plasma and flamers in Razorbacks, jump pack assault led by master with claws, halo, mantle, all going straight through the woods and stomping a mudhole in his

Of course this is all theory, as I have never faced one of these lists before, hence why I posted here because this is the place to get the best feedbak/advice. (yeah, I have been around a long time, mostly lurking).

Thanks again

All of the lists you mentioned have the same problem:

You only deal damage to his army by exposing yourself to return fire.

You realize with a full ZillaWall (TM) you can be to one side of it and everything but the second-to-last MC on the opposite side of you (if it's a dakkafex) can't shoot you immediately? And all the stealers will assault you if they really want to.

You have to flood Nidzilla with lots of tank targets at longer ranges, or you'll get owned PDQ once they close in on you. Marines cannot stand up to dakkafex fire, period. Don't think they can, and be surprised when they get mown down. Trust me, they will.

I've killed high-count marine armies without a problem because the usual efficiencies for marines (lascannons on tactical squads, heavy bolters on devastator squads) go out the window when TMC lists show up.

Vehicles, and lots of them, cripple the TMC concept. Really, they do.

Dear Stelek,

Why so eager to have a renaissance of XENOS. Looking at the battle scores for the last 2 years of GT competition I see ONE top five finish for a marine army, and that wasn't first place, and NO top finishes for Guard armies.

I see lots of Tau, Eldar, Nid wins, and NECRONS won the USA ARDBOYZ tournament ( perhaps Smurfs finished second in ARDBOYZ....).

So why do we need a renaissance for XENOS when the human race is obviously extinct? Are players not using properly optimized human armies?

OK, so smurfs are my first and favorite army...

I dont know that was a true zilla list. I saw one at orccon that was like 7 MC 4 swarms and NO gaunts or stealers. How stupid.

Remember if you take whirlwinds Castellan missiles might be the better bet.

You can't take both the halo and mantle BTW.

- G

Mike:

The more experienced players take Xenos, and hope they only end up playing marines (necrons are marines, btw, not xenos). Xenos are great killers of Marines.

Take your Nidzilla army up against a DE army, and it's a free win for the DE. There are lots of examples of Xenos armies being rock on rock battles. Nobody comes out a clear winner.

Since so many people take Marines, everyone has alot of experience beating them.

I play with Xenos armies and I can dance around Marines any day of the week.

So can quite a few others.

My point is, you usually end up playing marines at tournaments. So if you play a Xenos army, it's really easy to win.

Since guard are really just marines with crappy stats but more bodies...beating them is easy too.

What isn't easy is beating Xenos with Xenos. I personally have alot of experience playing every army against every army, so I know all the tricks and I'm not surprised by much.

Wouldn't it be nice though, if there were alot of Xenos players instead of alot of smurfs?

I think it'd make the game alot more interesting, and then maybe some of those GT 'winners' would have something better to say than 'well, I got the good matchups so I get the ring this year!'.

I know I'm tired of beating marines and their little friends, the IG; with 1 out of 5 games being Xenos.

Those are the games I actually enjoy.

GBF~ brain to fingers mistake, my master in termie armor has the mantle because he wields a thunderhammer and storm shield. The Master w/ the jump pack and claws has the halo. Know the rule, just typed it in accidentily.

How awesome is the dual t-l devourers!!! Played a game against 2 elite fexes and they are a perfect unit. The face off was amazing between my terminator squads armed with dual assault cannons and these bad boys. I shredded and dropped the winged HT with one squads worth of shooting (3 rends). One of my termie squads took 3 wounds from one fex. The other my armor held against, but those things put out 7 -8 wounds every time they shot. Why a nid player would not include three of those things in a list is beyond me. Sick.

45$ a pop is why some don't.

That's about the only reason why. lol

A box of Gaunts is similar in price if you didn't notice, so they'll be buying one or the other. Or both if mommy is paying the tab. Sorry, I let my jealousy get the better of me for a second there. Some kid at my local GW had God knows how many different armies, has them all painted up, and he's a really good painter too. He's like 16 and his parents buy him everything. He can't play nids for beans though.

Look ... i know i am not the deffinative guide to 40k and all but many of you are mistaken about what a MC list will be good at. i play both tyranids with MC and vanilla marines. MC are great at moving and shooting long range fire power. they also excel at killing vehicles. I love seeing landraiders and tanks. my 1500 pt list has 6 str 10 36" shots per turn, 9 str 8 36" shots per turn and a bunch of lighter stuff to take down hordes. if your foe is smart he may even take a choir with 3 zoanthroaps with psychic scream and scream on his tyrants as well. if you hang back and let him come at you he will wade right into the cover using it to prevent you from shooting at him until he is ready to advance close enough to the edge to fire. He will get the first turn of shooting and from pretty close range. by that time many of your units will be at ldr 3 from psychic scream. any moral tests you take due to casualties will probably be failed, you will end up falling back off the board. what i would take if i were him
2 tyrant VC, tl devourer +1 Bs, save str. Scream
2 gunfex w/ VC, Bs +1 wound, Bs, save and probably spine banks just to add more close in fire
3 warpblasting screaming throaps.
3 dakka fex w/ tl devourer and +1 Bs.
2x6 stealers w/ EC
2x3 Raveners w/ rending tallons.

what you should take.
Max out your terminator AC squads. fight cheese with cheese.
Take no vehicles other than landspeeders.
you will want the maximum number of min maxed las plas squads possible. more ap 2 the better. your gonna need 18 ap2 wnds when its all over with.
you will want a commander. why. because fury of the anchients will do next to nothing to goliaths with 2+ saves. you will want the higher ldr.value and commanders are cheaper.
you will want at least two units with flamers. i use either 3 bikes with 2 flamers or 5 assault marines with 2 flamers. that way you can position yourself so that stealers hiding in woods dont stand a chance. burn them out.
Devestator squads with lots of ML will be good for dakka fax. take two if you can.

Commander with some jimbobs.
5x5 man las plas marnines.
2x 5man termi squads w/ 2 ac in each.
2x3 bikes w/ 2 flamers each
3 speeders w/ ac and hb
8 man dev w/ 4 ml.
this list comes to 1750 and will be able to lay down withering fire of the ap2 variety. not to mention you will be able to take out the stealers on their way in and since all of your maines are ldr 10, if he takes a choir you wont end up falling back of the table edge. if you wanted to avoid that possibility at all costs, then take a banner and an apothecary. group up so that casualties will be within the necessary radius of both, and you will be really supprised by the durability.

I would recommend a jump-pack chaplain with pf and Mantle. He's a one man MC wrecking machine.

Tarval:

Still trying to figure out why everybody thinks ass cannon are the be all be all item for the marine list to have. So what if you roll that all mighty six, the chance to get it is rare and if you are building a list soly on trying to get that almighty six its going to fail.

How is a 1 in 6 chance "rare" on a weapon with 4 shots? An AC inflicts as many rending hits per volley on average as a lascannon inflicts hits. You're letting the intuitive reaction to "having to roll a 6" ("that's hard!") cloud your judgement.