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I'm sorry to be posting this, but I couldn't find exactly what I wanted through the search. I know this has been brought up before on many different forums, but I respect the input given threads here at dakka and I want to truely understand how this works.

Skimmers don't block LOS (unless they are landed/immobilised). The lith is a skimmer. It's also really frigging big. If a tankbusta is standing next to an ork trukk (one of the newer bigger models that he can't see over), can he still see the lith that's 30" away on the other side of the trukk with no terrain between them?

I don't play "magic cylinder", I generally play true LOS with the exception of sized area terrain (for example a size 3 forest blocks all LOS if you're not in it, but a hill uses true LOS to determine if you can see something on the other side - we have nice terrain that's pretty to scale).

So can you always see a lith (or other skimmer) if it's on the other side of a largish vehicle and you can't draw LOS from the model to the skimmer, because they are skimmers?

If you're drawing LoS to the 'lith, the fact that it's a skimmer is immaterial. Skimmerdom/skimmerness/the property of being skimmery only matters when trying to draw LoS past a skimmer. Draw LoS the usual way.

the guy I was playing was claiming that since the lith was a skimmer, my tankbustas could always see it even if the trukk was in the way. I thought that was BS, but didn't feel like having an arguement about it.

Thanks.

The guy is wrong. T-C is right. In the case of rules disagreements I always politely ask for a reference for my own knowledge. I hate gamers who play "he said, she said."

Zoned

Page 20, "Line of Sight", first paragraph.

Use a model's eye view to determine if you have line of sight. Put your head down behind the shooting model and see if he can see the monolith. If this is anoying or difficult, a laser pointer works just as well. Chances are, unless the shooter is right up next to the truck (and the truck is taller than he is), he'll be able to see over to truck to the gaigantic monolith on the other side.

If your opponent starts talking about the truck being level 3 or any such stuff, refer him to the page above.

As far as skimmers go, the only thing that is special about them and line of sight is that they don't block line of sight if you want to shoot something on the other side of them...essentialy you can pick them up and move them off the table for the purposes of determining line of sight to and from other models.

The 'skimmers can always be seen' thing is a fairly common misconception... I suspect it comes from a misinterpretation of the LOS rules regarding skimmers hovering over terrain.

I generally dislike the magic cylinder concept mut usually find I have to adhere to it as if you dont then people start claiming LOS under the truck, between the legs of a walker and so on.

As for the rules however, a size 3 model (such as a truck) blocks LOS for a size 2 model (a tankbusta as an example) to any model of size 3 or lower that would have to trace its LOS over the size 3 model.

Thus as per the rules RAW a buggy unit midway between a group of tankbustas and a monolith 18" from each other would block LOS from the tankbustas to the monolith and the other way round unless there was a gap between the buggies allowing a LOS to be drawn.

Yes its silly but that is the rules, buggies are size 3, monolith is size 3.

I suspect that many players, like me, have agreed to alter the rules in some way but any such alterations are house rules, commonly tournaments have such alterations to the rules covered in their FAQ's and rules booklets and again many do not play by RAW.

In the end its upp to you and your oponent.

fester wrote:Thus as per the rules RAW a buggy unit midway between a group of tankbustas and a monolith 18" from each other would block LOS from the tankbustas to the monolith and the other way round unless there was a gap between the buggies allowing a LOS to be drawn.

The rules quite specifically allow you to draw LOS, and thus shoot, over vehicles. So if the monolith can be seen by the tankbustas then they can shoot it. Vehicles are not area terrain, nor do they ever behave like it per RAW.

fester wrote:As for the rules however, a size 3 model (such as a truck) blocks LOS for a size 2 model

...only if that size 3 model is engaged in close combat.

Otherwise, you draw LOS from the 'model's eye view'

The Size categories are only relevant when drawing LOS into or through Area Terrain or a close combat.