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HQ
Sorcerer - 210
MoTz, Warp Time, Gift of Chaos, Wings, Personal Icon

The idea here was that i could benefit from his wings to get him close to the enemy quickly to start casting GoC. The personal Icon was also to act as a delivery system for the terminators who are now intended more to get into HtH.

Daemon Prince - 205
MoTz, Warp Time, Gift of Chaos, Wings

Like the Sorcerer I would benefit from the wings to get close and start casting GoC.
The Gift of Chaos. B)
So i really like the spawn models and 1k Sons wither in HtH, what better way then to get a chance at making that PF a Spawn to fight for you?

9x 1k Sons - 269
BoC

Ranged S8 AP1 shot. I looked at all the other spells and Doombolt was very appealing but the AT is definitely needed.

9x 1k Sons - 269
BoC

9x 1k Sons - 269
BoC

Same as above. Increase my odds at AT as they move and shoot.

9x Possessed - 274
MoTz

I think the 3+/4+ will make these guys solid marines in assault. Everything aside from 1 will make these guys great IMO.
Rhino - 35

5x Terminators - 220
2x CombiMelta, 1xPF, 1x CF, MoTz

Some added AT with Meltas

Overall opinions? Thoughts?

It looks pretty good though I usually just run a footslogging sorceror in a 10 man terminator squad, and with his shooty psychic powers and the multiple autocannons, and the combiweapons, that squad tears into anything and rarely dies because of the 2+/4+ saves

yeah the 2+/4+ is no joke.
I really dig on the possessed new models. I'm hoping to be able to make em work! B)

2+/4+ works against high firepower armies.

It doesn't work against high shot count armies.

i.e. Nurgle works vs bolterfire, Tzeentch works vs heavy weapon fire.

Just keep that in mind.

I've played against a very similar army to this with my Eldar. Any Eldar army that has Runes of Warding wrecks this army. It is really a very game breaking counter to your list, unfortunately. If you don't play against this locally, then you may have more enjoyable games.

Stelek makes a good point with Tzeentch vs. high shot armies. Being able to effectively shut down the psychics from Tzeentch, it became very easy to stay at range and thin them out with high numbers of shots (Scatterlasers and even vehicle mounted Shuriken Cannons).

It's a great, themed army, but definitely keep in mind who you typically play against.

Good luck.

While I didn't post the motivators Stelek mentioned and what you mentioned about Eldar I did consider both of these when I put the list together.
B)

My primary motivating factors for even STARTING a chaos army are the Possessed and Spawn models. I had put together a list that used 2 lash of submission and 3 units of possessed and a few spawn but never bought the models. B)

I was looking over the codex and noticed that there were not a lot of Tzeentch players in my area and I thought it would be cool to try out.

Based on some posts here (points at stelek), known beat stick (winged prince+warptime) i decided to fill out the list as Tzeentch. It is also VERY cheap for me(to buy and build) compared to my other armies. IG, Orks, Eldar, Tau

Thanks for the reminders. B)

I have seen a lot of people post about taking rhinos but I felt that would make me take Doombolt instead of BoC which is THE Tzeentch power.

I also had Ahriman in here but the codex + rules+ wording just made him a little too expensive for the "luxury" of choosing the right spell for the place and time.

Thanks for the comments!

I've been on the silly end of the Eldar runes on my Tzeentch sorcerors.

Sadly it is a big beat down.

You can still win, but you lose some handy firepower against mechanized lists...and that's where you really need that firepower.

Yeah mate. I can't take this to a tournament where I would expect to face an Eldar player as in every tournament I've played they've run Eldrad... I mean it makes sense, I run him. B)

With 3 S8 AP1 at 24" and the 2xMeltas + 1xCF do you think I have enough fire power to handle a 2+ Falcon list?
My thought was to use the DP + Warptime to try and bring down those suckers. I've had recent success with my Tau army against 2 falcons but i pumped a lot of shots into em.

You’re not going to have enough shots to drop Falcons. You just have to hit what you can and kill the troops when they disembark. If your opponent doesn’t field a Fire Prism, be sure to keep your guys bunched up so the maximum number are able to strike back if you take a charge from Harlequins.

Quick note- if you’re going to field a Sorcerer with Warp Time & Personal Icon, I’d strongly consider giving him a bike. He can Turbo-Boost turn 1 to get the termies into position better, and the T5 really helps him in HtH versus squads.

i thought about that but you don't think he would be too far ahead and all on his lonesome?

Fluffy though it may be, I think the MoT is wasted on that squad of Termies. They are not big enough to really take advantage of it. I think they would be better off with another body and an extra combi-weapon than the Mark.

Possesed are about the most overpriced pice of crap ever made.. to bad the models are about the best ever made.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Fluffy though it may be, I think the MoT is wasted on that squad of Termies. They are not big enough to really take advantage of it. I think they would be better off with another body and an extra combi-weapon than the Mark.

Yeah I can see that unfortunately for this list fluff is winning out. Hence... possessed who I think are the most FLUFFY chaos choice, they were marines now they're lord knows what.

@Kallbrand
A lot of people say that about Possessed. Now if I get Scout I can see that... but have you played with Daemon hunters? 25pts for a WS5 S6 marine. 2 attacks as well, but 1 less on the charge, with shrouding, an average sight roll of 30".
The way i am fielding them they are about 31pts a pop. Let's compare that to a 30pt termie.

Same number of attacks
worse base save
higher strength
no power weapon
higher invulnerable
option to take cheap transport

I think 66% of the time they could be great just depends on what they roll at game time.

If you want to choose fluff at the cost of effectiveness, more power to you. It is nice to see something different.

I sitll have a suggestion for the Termies, though: drop the CF down to a PF and get another combi-melta. Better to bust that tank this turn when you DS than wait till the turn after to assault it.

I hope you realise that in your Possessed vs Termies comparison, the Possessed come out way behind (no power weapon, no shooting and no 2+ are biggies). And that's compared with a unit which, while competitive, is merely competitive, not uber. Of course, that's before the abilities come in to even it up a little, but as has been pointed out many times, not knowing what you're going to get when you deploy them makes it so much harder to get full use out of them.

the Possessed will be problematic at times for you (getting unhelpful rolls and such), but i think that they add a characterful addition to the army. they are not normally used, and if done correctly they can become quite nasty. not my first choice of units, but still overall effective when used right. do some slick conversions and your all set.

also as far as the termies go, drop the CF to a PF and then you can leave out the other combi melta or add it, whichever you preferr. I myself like the base combi bolter the best, but i love hitting units with 10 bolter rounds and 2 autocannon rounds a turn (misses are rare with those rerolls)

hehe i was interrupted before i could finish my post properly. it all depends one what i send the unit up against at this point.

31pts vs 30pts

3+ / 2+ SV
4+ / 5+ Inv
0 / S4 AP5 Shooting
5 / 4 Strength

50% of the time the possessed will get something in hand to hand
17% of the time they will get FNP
33% of the time they will get something I am less interested in Fleet/Scout

Fleet is great but I prefer the other 4. Scout in this list is just awful unless its escalation.

In hand to hand
Furious Charge
S6 I5 vs S4 I4 PW
5 possessed vs 5 termies vs 10 MeQs w/ PF
both hit 7 times
the possess wound 6 kill 2
the termies wound 3 kill 3
7attacks back at possessed 3 hits 1 wound save most likely(66%)
9 attacks back at termies 5 hits 2 wound both are saved very likely (70%)
3 PF attacks at possessed 2 hits 2 wounds 1 save
3 PF attacks at Termies 2 hits 2 wounds 2 die the chances I get 1 save (66%)

Both results I won the combat but I'm left with 1 less termie most likely.

Power Weapon
S5 I4 PW vs S4 I4 PW
5 possessed vs 5 termies vs 10 MeQs w/ PF
both hit 7 times
Possessed kill 4
Termies kill 3
9 Attacks back at possessed 5 hit 2 wound chances 1 is failed is 44%.
3 PF attacks at possessed 2 hits 2 wounds 1 save
3 PF attacks at Termies 2 hits 2 wounds 2 die the chances I get 1 save (66%)

so total same number of deaths(2) but possessed kill more

Rending
S5 I4 vs S4 I4 PW
5 possessed vs 5 termies vs 10 MeQs w/ PF
both hit 7 times
Possessed rend 2 marines
Wound 3 and Kill 1
Same number of deaths as before losing 2

blah blah blah
As you can see 33% of the time the Possessed as fitted cost wise will be more effective in hand to hand then the termies. Should they roll FNP they will be more effective at soaking up fire than the termies as well with a 4+ Inv and FNP.

During the game I should be able to successfully engage them with the units of my choice and against non-mech units and units that are strictly PW oriented they will do better than the standard Termie in survivability also due to the fact that they are Fearless.

Statswise and mathhammer wise I can't see them being as bad as most people say they are, i just can't. I am also not expecting them to decimate my enemey's ranks should they roll a non offensive power(FNP, PW, Rend) Should they get FNP or Fleet, their role is to hold up a unit until my DP or Sorcerer can swoop in and get some kills B)

In response to the CF i think thats an interesting point. I am however more inclined to try the 3 Attacks with a CF on the charge then the 1 shot of melta. I think if I am facing a lot of armor the multiple attacks will last me longer when I move onto the next vehicle.

Thanks for the comments though they really have got me thinking and actually helped me to figure out MORE how I intend to use my Possessed. I still happen to like the unit after reading the codex but am sure some games I'm going to get a roll where I would have preferred something else. B)

I think your math is a bit off on the PF champ.. he is about 1.5w(actually a bit less) with 0.5 saved on the terminators.. roughly 1w/r While the possesed would suffer 0.75 aprox.

If you are up against MEQ try combi-plasma on the terminators for 5 pts a model and see the kill stack against them. A mark could also work pretty nice for the terminators depending on what you plan for them.

Also, the possesed are alot more likley to loose out to small arms fire. And will suffer alot more if they are not the ones who assults in the end.

hmmm... I was trying to focus on whole numbers as in game 1.5 wounds is rounded up to 2(taking worst case scenarios). How do you figure the Termies will save 50% of the time on a 5+ vs the possessed dying more on a 4+?

Everyone in the list above has a 4+ invulnerable as they all have MoTz or IoTz whichever it is. hehe B)

My plan for the termies is to have the sorcerer on his way towards a vehicle when they arrive, that way when they do arrive they are that much closer to their intended target. If the vehicle is too far away from the main battle or their aren't any that S8 AP1 can't handle I will bring them in on the front lines so that they suffer the least amount of fire before crashing in to attack.

In this list my possessed cost (on average) 31pts while my termies cost 37. The possess run the chance of being better or on par with the termies in hand to hand,(not counting powerfists, chainfists) depending what ability i get, against GeQ they will be better, against MeQs about 50% of the time will be on par.