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In the D weapon description, when it talks about shooting at non-vehicles, it says that a model immune to Instant Death instead takes one wound.

In the gargantuan creature description, it says that they are immune to Instant Death, but that when hit with a weapon that causes instant death they take 1d3 wounds instead.

So which is right?

I think, by the ways it's worded, that the 1d3 wounds thing only happens when a gargantuan creature is hit by a weapon that kills instantly by special rules, but not by a D weapon.

if the D-cannon has special rules then they stand, as the D-cannon hits a model that is imune to instant deat it causes 1 wound rather than cause instant death and thus the model never gets hit with an instant death attack.

fester wrote:if the D-cannon has special rules then they stand, as the D-cannon hits a model that is imune to instant deat it causes 1 wound rather than cause instant death and thus the model never gets hit with an instant death attack.

I think he means a D weapon from apocalypse. Not sure though.

Grignard wrote:I think he means a D weapon from apocalypse. Not sure though.

Yes, thats exactly what I mean. I did not use D-cannon, where did that come from?

Huh... we always played it that is loses D3 wounds... but now I am going to have to check when I get home. Could just be a botched job.

hotflungwok wrote:In the D weapon description, when it talks about shooting at non-vehicles, it says that a model immune to Instant Death instead takes one wound.

In the gargantuan creature description, it says that they are immune to Instant Death, but that when hit with a weapon that causes instant death they take 1d3 wounds instead.

So which is right?

I think, by the ways it's worded, that the 1d3 wounds thing only happens when a gargantuan creature is hit by a weapon that kills instantly by special rules, but not by a D weapon.

Go with the d3. A D weapon DOES kill instantly.
Typically, the most recently published rule takes precedence. Since both of these rules are in the Apoc book, both should apply.

Personally, I find it rather silly that your Forgeworld Demon Lord and my puny Daemon Prince, standing side by side, could be hit by a D-weapon which causes 1 wound to my D-Prince & 3 to your Daemon Lord.
Them's the rules, though.


Eric

It isn't the rules, actually. I just checked over lunch.
Both take 1 hit.
Gargantuan critters are immune to Instant Death. Things that cause outright death, Force Weapons and Stat damage are their examples, do d3 wounds.
The Destructor weapons (D weapons) do exactly 1 wound to targets that are immune to Instant Death.

Another fun example of the confusion that can result from "Instant Death" vs. "I kill you, exceedingly quickly, but slightly slower than instantly."

Wehrkind wrote:Gargantuan critters are immune to Instant Death. Things that cause outright death, Force Weapons and Stat damage are their examples, do d3 wounds.
The Destructor weapons (D weapons) do exactly 1 wound to targets that are immune to Instant Death.

This was our conclusion too. We found it amusing that a Hierophant would take d3 wounds from D weapon, but a warrior would only take one.

No no, you are missing the point.

Gargantuan creatures are immune to instant death.

Things that cause outright death (force weapons etc.) do d3 wounds.

D weapons cause instant death. If the target is immune to instant death, it takes 1 wound.

So D weapon = 1 wound.
Force weapon = d3 wounds.

Force weapon on a warrior= I have no idea, probably 1.

I think it is kind of silly... but there it is. Again, it is the difference between "Instant Death" and "Outright Death, but not instant".

This is one of the reasons I think they need to clear up the difference between instant death and "I kill you instantly but don't say "instant death" in my rules" weapons.

If this is indeed intentional, which I think it is ( I.e. eldar wraithcannons suck you into the warp, even if you're immune to instant death through being extra tough or whatever), they need to have categories of instant death and make every " kill you instantly" effect fit in to those categories. Have the catagories named something like "massive trauma ( double toughness), disintegration/warp ( wraithcannon/d-cannon), and psychic kill ( force weapons). I dont think it would add to much complexity relative to the amount of clarity it would provide.

Grignard wrote:they need to have categories of instant death and make every " kill you instantly" effect fit in to those categories. Have the catagories named something like "massive trauma ( double toughness), disintegration/warp ( wraithcannon/d-cannon), and psychic kill ( force weapons). I dont think it would add to much complexity relative to the amount of clarity it would provide.

I think they need to have categories of rules writers, and make every 'writer' fit into class C, or be terminated:

A:"Instant Gullet": This writer will chug a beer anywhere anytime. Jervis seems to belong to this category, and unfortunately anytime seems to be everytime he's called upon to make a judgement call about what the players of his "brainchild" might actually LIKE.

B: "Mass Quanties": This writer will abstain from joining the "Instant Gullet" in a "few pints" until he realizes that HE'S the one who has to try to make a sensible FAQ for the brainchild of tha aforementioned gullet, at which point he'll stop mid way and help drink the local pub dry. For the most part this seems to be the rest of the design team (although exceptions may apply).

C: "Pint Killer" This writer will often go all day with a drop of beer passing his lips; his rules will be neat and concise, make sense, and have very few if any loopholes. Unfortunately the "Instant Gullet" seems to take offense that this guy would rather write and make quality product than socialize and use his considerable connections to make sure that the "Pint Killer" gets as little work as possible.

I don't think it would add too much responsibility to the staffing dept. to do this, while adding clarity to the rules......


P.S. /Rant off