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many of you will recognize the theme here. its been used before. i am running two tooled up librarians in a close combat HQ squad. the rest of the army is designed to deal out fire at a range. its top heavy points wise but i realize this so no need to point that out.

1500pts
Epistolary Might of heros, Fury of anchients, familiar, BP, Terminator honors, Furious Charge
Epistolary Veil of time, Fury of Anchients, Familiar, BP, Terminator honors, Furious Charge
HQ command Squad (6 marines) Apothecary, Champion, 2 Plasma Rifles, Furious Charge, non characters are armed with bp and ccw.

2x6 Tac squads w/ Las cannon and Plasma rifle

5 Terminator w/ 2 AC

2x6 Devestator w/ 3 ML each

2 Tornado w/ AC
1 Tornado w/ Melta, Hvy Flamer.

i had to include the tornado w/ flamer for pts reasons. it will come in handy with swarms like ard boys and ec stealer. I have faced a lot of chaos and tau recently. i was hoping to be able to use the librarians to pin fire warrior and suites while the rest of my base hits vehicles and transports. if i face any CC armies my librarians are str 5 on the charge and get 6 attacks on the charge. one of them will also get 1d3 extra attacks and may re roll everything. critique please.

What codex are you using? Last time I checked, you couldn't give any HQ's furious charge, tank hunters, etc...

space marines current codex. pg 29 all models in a command squad including leading and attatched characters may at a cost of +3pts per model have one of the following skills. furious charge, tank hunters, infiltrate.

what do you think of the list?

sennacherib wrote:
Epistolary Might of heros, Fury of anchients, familiar, BP, Terminator honors, Furious Charge
Epistolary Veil of time, Fury of Anchients, Familiar, BP, Terminator honors, Furious Charge
HQ command Squad (6) Apothecary, Champion, 2 Plasma Rifles, Furious Charge, non characters are armed with bp and ccw.

How does the Cmd squad get the furious-charge bonus?
If its not delivered correctly, they will not get the charge.

i was planning on holding it back until the enemy made it close enough to be a threat. then using it to counter any offensive moves made by my foes melee troops. its more of a counter charge unit. with nids and orks becoming more prevalent the need for a devestating counter charger is made more and more necessary.
i toyed around with the idea of a rhino as a delivery system, but the chances of a single rhino surviving long enough to deliver its payload, just dosnt seem justified.

Doesn't Might of Heroes augment your base strength?
Meaning you can't use a force weapon for that bonus?

I personally think a chaplain with lightning claws in terminator armor is more of a CC monster than what you have put up there.
WS5 S5 reroll to hit reroll to wound at I6

Sorry, missed that part. Not a big marine fan.

The list seems fine but you're out-numbered against almost every army. I count 28 models. 25 in infantry and 3 skimmers. If you play any swarm army, they'll just bog you down and win in close combat.

Tau would have fun with you. They would match you with range and fire power and still out-number your marines.

If you really want to run the close combat monster librainians, I would suggest taking Assault squads in 8-10. Take the vow Blessed be the warriors... I think that's it. Allows them to have furious charge. I know your libbys wont get the bonus, but you already have them at I5 any way, and veil will more then make up for the lost of the +1 Strength.

Over all it's a all or nothing looking list. Test play it a couple of times and see what it reallys does. I just dont see it lasting more then 3 turns against any one with that low model count.

paidinfull, MoH adds to attacks.

@ silverwarrior 88. 40 models, 3 of them are vehicles. i admit that the model count is a little low but then... i have lots of long range fire power and a kick butt close assault team. this is another variant i made...same number of models. no close assault experts and lots more fire power.
1500pts.
Tigurius
5 man HQ w/ 2 ML and tank hunters
Codicer w/ BP and Fury of the anchients
5 man HQ w/ 2 Lascannon tank hunters

3x6man tac squad w/ ML and Plasma rifle in each.

Venerable dread, tank hunters, Lascannon ML, xrtra armor.

Predator Las cannon/ Hb sponsons Xtra armor, smoke.
6 Dev. w/ 3 HB

2 Tornado w/ AC/HB

i get 31 shots at over 30". 3 str 10 and 4 str 9 per turn. this will hopefully help mitigate any enemy armor. i was thinking i might need some really mobile fire support for swarms, so maybe i drop one tactical squad and replace it with 3 bikers carrying two flamers. would this work better than the original list. i know its more of a stationary list but still... whatda ya think.

You can only take furious charge if you have a command squad.

Sorry, I over looked the Tac and Dev squads. I'm an all around fan of large armies. With more models, the mistakes dont hurt as much.

I've seen the "all gun line" work for many marine players. It sucks to look across the table and see that many lascannons and plasma guns from the 3+ save marines. Only problem I see here is something smashing hard on a flank. Keep your troops spaced out so nothing can jump from one squad to another and you should be fine.

You dont have tank hunters for the HQ squad with the lascannons, on the ML's. I only see one Str 10 shot, and it's from the Dread. Unless I'm over looking something again. The dread would be one of the first thing to go anyway even when they're bare.

sorry silver warrior. i had no coffee ths morn. when i wrote the list up on here. the las cannon HQ also has the tank hunter special ability. no one really likes a dread, even a venerable one. its a lot of points sunk into something that probably wont make its points back. your right about a hard hit on the flank. i have been working with this list a while, the potential of a hard melee hit was why i had included the close combat monster squad. this version has more potential for killing at a distance and less potential for killing close up. always a trade off i am afraid. do you have any other suggestions.

The Dev squad with the heavy bolters works well against swarms, but they're not mobile like your Skimmers. Someone would have to kill 3 marines before getting to the heavy bolters. It's a tade off with the skimmers since they can be destroyed by one shot. If you keep them moving 12' at all times though it makes it harder. The skimmers allow you to move and fire giving the hb's 48' and the ac's 36' to work with..

I'd say drop the dev squad for a vet squad. 8x man, powerfist, serg with powerfist, and furious charge. only 199pts.. keep them behind your gun line and just counter charge with them. You'll get 7 powerfist attacks at str 10, and 18 str 5 attacks.. you should be able to drop a mc or a elite close combat squad.

The dread really isnt worth it either impo. I've never really liked them unless you use them with a drop pod and a heavy flamer. You can take a cheap master for 101pts. Give him a bp, power weapon, close combat shield, and use him the same way as the vets.

do you think it would be worth the extra 30pts to add a honor guard to the vet squad, and then add a second poer weapon as an upgrade to the squad. that would be pretty nasty for 40pts more. i dont know if it would be as deadly as two libis with veil of time. with the libi's the way that i have them right now i get 9 base attacks 11 on the charge with reroll everything and the potential for two forceweapon instakills. though they both cost more than the vets, i can still use fury of the ancients to fry a couple of targets per turn long before they get into range. also tigurius can use his fear of darkness if i so choose with a 24" radius of effect to force moral checks. vrs tau this would be awsome. thoughts.?
im thinking of dropping the dread. just to many points and to fragile. better to have somethin tougher.

I dont have my codex handy, so I'm not sure what all the honor guard have... I know one of them have the axe of ultimar.. gives the a invunable save too if i'm not mistaken.

If you really want to rush with the libby, then add a chaplain with lightning claws. You'll re-roll everything anyway, allow the squad they are in to re-roll misses, and you can give him moh to up his attacks.

You can only use 1 psychic power per turn.. using the force weapon for a instant kill counts as a power.. so you cant use moh.. then use the force weapon...

Tigurius is just one of the best libbys in the game.. i think he's only 175...?? not too sure.. i dont think he has a invul save though, so be careful with him.. using him with smite/fear... or fear/fury really tears into people.. i would use the smite/fear against most armies like eldar, chaos, and other marines, since most of them are not fearless..... use fury/fear against horde armies to push them back and take out alot of units with a weak save at once.

It would not be a good idea to add an honor guard. they are no better than a unit champion, and don't get the two hand weapon bonus in combat. honor guard all get the axe of ultramar, but that's just a power weapon, and they have a bolter as well. oh and they are the same points as a champion, as you upgrade one of the squad to a honor guard, rather than buying them as an extra model, soin reality they cost 45pts (15 for the marine, and +30 for the honor guard upgrade).

the champion gets honor blades which give him a 4+ invul in combat. and the ancient has the banner of macragge (which is a chapter banner). so the unit as a whole is decent, but not amazing. they are more fluffy than anything else.

Tigurius is 165 and no he doesn't have an invul.