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Going to start getting this army built, converted, and painted.

I think it's fairly straight forward.

Dakka dakka.

Charge.

Win!

==============================================

1750 Pts - Orks Roster - Orks 1750

1 Wazdakka Gutsmek @ 180 Pts

1x7 Lootas @ 105 Pts

2x9 Lootas @ 135 Pts

2xTrukk Shoota Boyz
10 Boyz @ 130 Pts (Rokkit Launcha)
1 Trukk @ [60] Pts (Rokkit Launcha; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram; Wreckin' Ball)

4xTrukk Slugga Boyz
11 Boyz @ 182 Pts (Choppa & Slugga; Rokkit Launcha)
1 Boyz Nob @ [46] Pts (Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole)
1 Trukk @ [60] Pts (Rokkit Launcha; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram; Wreckin' Ball)

3xKannon Battery @ 69 Pts
Kannon (x3); Ammo Runt (x3)
6 Gretchin @ [0] Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1750

==============================================

I can't resist Wazzdakka...he's just too damn neat for me to leave him at home. Besides, I really wanna convert the sh*t outta him.

Remember, Orks don't lose! They just come back for annuver go!

Comments welcome.

I hope I don't have to play against that army. Hopefully I'll be at a nearby table so I can enjoy watching you slaughter someone else.

I'm sorry but the list is just terrible.

Despite the fact that mostly trukk mounted Boyz is the answer to the Horde version of Orks, the unit selections are so bad that I'd gladly throw up my own Horde Boyz against this travesty.

The Lootas are in such small mobz that the one with 7 Guys will fail target priority tests, and will run at the first sign of casualties.

The units of 9 will be better at picking their targets, but will also run at the first set of casualties.

Can you give me a good reason why they're not in units of 12 and 13, to at least help mitigate the problems listed?

You're looking at 4 Trukk Mobz that are dangerous, the other 2 aren't going to do a whole lot since Shootas need lots of bodies to be dangerous. 10 Orks shooting from an AV10 vechile or from outside it are just asking to get shot once and then they'll happily run off the board.

Likewise I'm not seeing the Kannons do much. They're BS3 Rokkits, that also like to run off the table when shot by heavy bolters.

And then there's Wazzdakka, who is inferior in every way to a normal Warboss on Bike with the usual kit. Or are you expecting some kind of Miracle from the 4 S8 AP4 shots he can do (at BS2) when turbo-boosting?

Mech Eldar & Necrons will have a field day with this. You may pull off something against Godzilla, but if they built it well enough (Gaunts), it should also run wild on this.

sorry stelek I'm inclined to agree with voodoo

wazz is great though but if you are looking for taking the orks to a tournament and want to win this is going to be tough. I just faced a list similar to this with my tau and it was over by turn 3.

paidinfull wrote:wazz is great though but if you are looking for taking the orks to a tournament and want to win this is going to be tough. I just faced a list similar to this with my tau and it was over by turn 3.

So when you say similar, it had Orks in trukks? If you could be more specific that'd help.

Oh boy.

Well...I don't think it's very competitive at all.

ender502

Voodoo Boyz wrote:I'm sorry but the list is just terrible.

Don't be sorry.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Despite the fact that mostly trukk mounted Boyz is the answer to the Horde version of Orks, the unit selections are so bad that I'd gladly throw up my own Horde Boyz against this travesty.

So Orks in Trukks are bad.

I don't know how experienced you are with footslogging orks vs trukk orks, but in general it's a win for the trukk boyz.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:The Lootas are in such small mobz that the one with 7 Guys will fail target priority tests, and will run at the first sign of casualties.

The units of 9 will be better at picking their targets, but will also run at the first set of casualties.

ender502 wrote:Well...I don't think it's very competitive at all.

Once upon a time, I took a themed Emperor's Children legion army to a RTT.

I was in a funny mood that day, not playing to win but playing to have fun.

I had close games every game but I ended up winning all of my games.

I mean, EC vs armored company isn't exactly a 'autowin' when you have no lascannons.

In the end, it was my generalship that carried the day.

I won that tournament. Wasn't easy, but it was fun.

Haven't had a whole lotta fun at many other tournaments (even the many I've won), and while I had quite a bit of fun at the doubles tournament (ok, the first game was real fun) the tournament was not as fun for me personally as it could have been. I played an army my opponents couldn't shoot or assault. I slept like 2 hours a night (horrible accommodation's). This year, things will be different. I won't go to just beat everyone silly. If I happen to, fine. If I lose, fine. Hopefully I'll have fun, get good painting scores, sleep, enjoy my buddies, and have some fun games. I guess we'll just have to see.

I apologize... it was in the place where i put that thing that time. hehehe

The list I played ran an identical set up with the boyz in trukks sans the rokkits. He did not run Wazz but a bikerboss PK and all the fun stuff.

Part of what the biggest short coming was the deployment, it was the L shape and I was back in the corner. I was able to go first and flank his cover so i could get shots on his Trukks and with SMS, S5 i was able to get shots regardless. Turn 2 instead of rushing 24" straight at me with his 3 living trukks he moved to get some Rokkit shots from them on my hammerheads. It worked and he was able to bring one down but the rest of the army had 36" Range and I still had 2 piranha and 3 Railguns so I was able to pop them and he was in on foot. Even with fire power from Lootas or Tank bustas or a SAG, its very much a win big or go home list. With this many trukks unless you are using the old small models it will be hard to find enough cover for them. I presume your tactics would be to zoom forward 24" get into your opponents face through target saturation?
The downside to the new orks and trukk boys is that even if they get out unscathed they are that much closer to the enemy who can still end up shooting them off of the table.

The recommendations I would make are... for competitive tournament play... downgrade Wazz to a normal boss on a bike its a little cheaper. Keep your trukks 45 and under they die SOOO easily. Either give em the wrecking ball or Ram + Riggers. Drop 2 squads of shoota boys in truks and change them too foot sloggin boyz... actually just see below. I revised your list optimizing the units you have and i think this will be MUCH more effective and you will like what you get with it.

HQ
Mek - 85
KFF

Warboss - 155
Bike, PK, Cybork, AS

TROOPS
12x Choppa Boys - 112
Nob w/ PK BP
1x Trukk - 45pt
Ram+Riggers or Wrecking Ball

12x Choppa Boys - 112
Nob w/ PK BP
1x Trukk - 45pt
Ram+Riggers or Wrecking Ball

12x Choppa Boys - 112
Nob w/ PK BP
1x Trukk - 45pt
Ram+Riggers or Wrecking Ball

12x Choppa Boys - 112
Nob w/ PK BP
1x Trukk - 45pt
Ram+Riggers or Wrecking Ball

30x Shootas - 245
3x Rokkit, Nob w/ PK

30x Shootas - 245
3x Rokkit, Nob w/ PK

ELITES
13x Lootas - 195

13x Lootas - 195

@Stelek
Generalship definitely goes a long way you are totally right. The list does not guarantee a win in anyway. Neither does math hammer. B)
I hope you see I'm stickin up for you but also want to point out that should you meet someone that is as skilled or a little less skilled then it could make for a very frustrating game. This list is VERY close to my old list which was INCREDIBLY nasty at least IMO. I added the big mobs because my concern primarily with your previous list was... what happens if your luck is "meh" and your opponents is "hot"? Those boys walking across the field won't make it. B( I stuck the rokkits in the shoota boy mobs because I thought they would do better there than in the grot squads or in the trukk boy squads. I didn't see them getting shot all that much even with open top as if you aren't moving then assaulting you really aren't going to shoot em, ya know?

I think its funny that I could probably annihilate this army with ease with my 3 land-raider solid Grey Knight list. All I have to do is make sure not to get within 12" of your wrecking ball trukks...not so hard if they remain out of sight of the LR lascannons with GT terrain I'd wager. Even funnier playing 5th edition.

Not that the list is terrible or anything, but its got glaring weaknesses, not least of which is the abyssmal leadership issues you'll have....which is where trukk boys suck compared to bigger mobs.

I dont think the list is totally uncompetetive like the others above however...its got its dangers. I just think your leadership issues could be a VERY big problem. I predict you getting knocked out in game 4, smashing opponents in the first 3, but taking you out of the running....as happens to good players with lists like this. You'll probably do fairly well, but you're not winning all five games.

I guess we'll see, hopefully you have the name on your card changed this time so that you can actually PROVE you were at this GT. PROVING your high standing, since as far as any other GT player is concerned, you've been to only 1....ever and DIDNT win. Thats how many times your name appears on the results pages. Just thought I'd point that out.

I'll buy you a Guiness Stelek, after all the crap we've given each other. With your big fat annoying ego it would be a pleasure to sit at the bar and talk crap to each other....after I kill you in round 4.

(I'm posting this with intended joviality, not flaming.)

Stelek wrote:

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Despite the fact that mostly trukk mounted Boyz is the answer to the Horde version of Orks, the unit selections are so bad that I'd gladly throw up my own Horde Boyz against this travesty.

So Orks in Trukks are bad.

I don't know how experienced you are with footslogging orks vs trukk orks, but in general it's a win for the trukk boyz.

I'm very familiar in how it works and I agree 100% with what I highlighted. Your problem is that you've only got 4 Trukks that scare me. That's it. And if you follow the link in my Sig to my 1750 list, I can take your charges and can counter charge with my own, and I've got the mobility to hunt down your Trukks to stop you (Deth Koptas, Storm Boyz in a pinch).

You're also 100% terrain dependent with that list. If you get stuck with a bad terrain setup, you lose.

Stelek wrote:

Voodoo Boyz wrote:The Lootas are in such small mobz that the one with 7 Guys will fail target priority tests, and will run at the first sign of casualties.

The units of 9 will be better at picking their targets, but will also run at the first set of casualties.

Can you give me a good reason why they're not in units of 12 and 13, to at least help mitigate the problems listed?

Well I'm pretty sure GW has me down twice. I could be wrong, they could have since deleted them

I guess I could post scans of my GT tickets or my name badges since I tend to keep those. lol then I'd get the photoshopped it bit tossed at me and my mood would darken.

Anyway my name has always been on my badges, but often as not I don't get the time free to go until a week before and I end up buying someone elses ticket. Which GW never seems to notice that my name doesn't match the one on the computer...

Not saying they're like dumb or anything, GW runs a fine business!

=============================

Side note: Isn't playing a weaker list intentionally better at a GT? It's not like I've really ever been challenged at one. lol

I dunno how you are going to blow this list up with GK, is it the land raiders? I do have 5 S9 power claws in the list. Maybe you'd pillbox, but against what? It's not like I have big scary AV14 vehicles, after all. Though I have really thought hard about bringing the battlewagons along instead...I figured out how to fit 7 or 8 of them into 1750. lol

Ughhh...so many quotes upon quotes. lol Gonna delete some.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:I'm very familiar in how it works and I agree 100% with what I highlighted. Your problem is that you've only got 4 Trukks that scare me. That's it. And if you follow the link in my Sig to my 1750 list, I can take your charges and can counter charge with my own, and I've got the mobility to hunt down your Trukks to stop you (Deth Koptas, Storm Boyz in a pinch).

So you really haven't played against a list like this, have you.

If you really believe deff koptas and storm boyz are going to make it across the board and pwn me, I don't know what to say really.

Oh and I have sigs turned off, sorry.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
You're also 100% terrain dependent with that list. If you get stuck with a bad terrain setup, you lose.

Yet you claim deff koptas and storm boyz will arrive and punk me in the same breath. Interesting.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Yeah they're still going to put out damage, but they're more fragile than they should be.

Working as intended? See below.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:No I didn't think they get LD12, but testing on LD10 as opposed to 9 and then 7 is a big difference.

For you, in your mind. For me, I'd rather have 3 loota units than 2.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
And you will run the minute anything long range touches you. SMS, Destroyers, Heavy Bolters/Speeders. Hell with 7 Lootas in a mob, all I need to do is kill three and they're gone. Big units are what you want.

You kill 3 of 7 and they're gone? Interesting. Which edition of 40k is this? 6th?

If you really want to kill my lootas, you can.

Same with my kannons.

I have lots of threats. Do I care if I lose 2 or 3 a turn? Not really.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Good for you, but that doesn't change the fact that they're a terrible selection. If you want to take bad selections for fun, then more power to you. But considering you like to post about how supposedly great your lists are, I figured I'd point out that this is a bad idea to take to a competitive GT.

Most of my lists are better than 99% of those out there. I like this list, but it's fragile.

So are my Dark Eldar. Pack a punch, can't take one.

I can live with it.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Hide them? Right, you can hide them, and then they can't shoot at anything till the turn AFTER you move them out to shoot, since they're all heavy weapons. So if you hide them, then I'm not worried about them and the minute you do try to use them, I get a turn to shoot at terribly fragile targets before you can do anything with them.

Indeed. That isn't exactly what I meant. I meant you can hide them more than 36" away and be out of ground slogger heavy bolter range.

Any space marine player that wants to fire his (usual) heavy bolter squad or vehicle (meaning 1) at my kannons and ignore my trukks is welcome to the 70 points.

Don't I win against such stupidity?

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Good luck then, the regular boss is better, but if you want to go Zoom Zoom, then by all means run the character. If you're going to make Zoom Zoom noises, model a Mazda logo onto his bike or something.

What if I installed one of those pull and zip engines, should it still be a Mazda or maybe it should be a Honda Interceptor logo? Might be hard to model...

Voodoo Boyz wrote:They've got 6 Shooty units, but only 3 that they care about, and they can reach out and touch your admittedly fragile Lootas, making them go away. Then you're shooting them with BS3 Missile Launchers or BS2 Missile Launchers. And the turn after the Lootas go away, the Arty is next to go.

Then you're looking at Trukks, who can get hunted down, once your very fragile shooty units are done being dealt with.

If you think you can phase Necrons with this, go right ahead. And good luck against Tau that's running SMS, your list goes away very, very quickly. Ditto on Marines with Whirlwinds, but that's almost any Ork list.

So on the offchance this happens:

Game 1, out of 120 guys, I get paired with the Necron player...ok, I'll keep it in mind.

SMS makes my list go away quickly? That's an amusing thought. I fear the crisis suits far more myself, but hey if you think devilfish and hammerheads are going to get within 24" of my army without getting blown up...well, that's ok then.

Anyway I can only hope someone decides to take a shooty army and kill my lootas, then my artillery, and then my trukks. Because by the time this happens, my orks should be just about finished mopping up said shooty army.

Why do you bother posting a list if you don't take any of the recommendations? Is it just to show off (cause that failed)?

Ozymadias, King of Kings

Getting other peoples points of view (that my army list is indeed a glass hammer, as intended) and explaining my thoughts behind it, doesn't mean I have to change it.

As far as posting it to show off, well, no...no I don't post lists to show off, King of Kings.

I dont post lists anymore pretty much for that reason. Noone EVER likes it or says "great job, that list is awesome" Its always either "that list sucks" or "you need to change this/that" followed by the original poster feeling offended and needing to retaliate.

The only time I'll actually post a full list is before giving a battle report, and the list isnt for critiquing at that point, just to say what I brought....its a much better way to post lists, and if you've got a successful set of battle reports, there isnt much people can do to argue your choices...it worked didnt it?

I might actually post one for real advice too, but it will never again be..."taking this list to GT, what do you think?" Besides, why warn people about what I'm taking?

Oh I don't mind. I have very serious reservations about most peoples advice anyway. I've seen their army lists, after all.

did you have any thoughts on the suggestions i made?

Stelek wrote:
So you really haven't played against a list like this, have you.

If you really believe deff koptas and storm boyz are going to make it across the board and pwn me, I don't know what to say really.

Oh and I have sigs turned off, sorry.

I own and play KOS, and have done so for years now, even before the new Dex.

They won't get across the board to "PWN" you, but they can stop that critical set of trukks from hitting me.

Look at it this way:

1.) Your Trukks are hiding behind some terrain, to get to my Mobz to hit me. If they are not out of LOS, they're being shot by my army and likely stopped. This is the Fragile Nature of KoS and has been since 4th Ed started.

2.) If you can hide your Trukks to get within that 21" or so sweet spot to charge me, then I'm sure I can hide my Deth Koptas in their scout move to come out and get shots off on the hiding trukks, also making it hard for you to stop me.

3.) Storm Boyz, in a pinch, can perform the same role as the Deth Kopta, stop that trukk from hitting. If I can stop a few of those trukks, then my 30 Boy Mobz will be able to take whatever charge you throw at me, and then win through attrition.

Stelek wrote:
Yet you claim deff koptas and storm boyz will arrive and punk me in the same breath. Interesting.

See above to see what I'm referring to. All I have to do is stop some trukks from hitting me.

Stelek wrote:
Working as intended? See below.

For you, in your mind. For me, I'd rather have 3 loota units than 2.

I don't see how purposefully making them Fragile has anything to do with making them better. OK, you've got 3 Units vs. 2. They're less effective by the nature of their weapons AND the rules for Ork morale. The benefit you're getting for what you give up is not a smart trade, IMO.

Stelek wrote:
You kill 3 of 7 and they're gone? Interesting. Which edition of 40k is this? 6th?

If you really want to kill my lootas, you can.

Same with my kannons.

I have lots of threats. Do I care if I lose 2 or 3 a turn? Not really.

I kill 3 of 7 and they're testing on a 7 to run, that's good odds. I kill 4 and they're testing on a 6. Assuming you get them in good cover to deploy, they're T4 5+ Cover. That's not hard to kill 4 models of.

If I eliminate your long range threats, and have ways to stop you fast ones, I really don't see a whole lot of "punch" to your army.

Stelek wrote:
Most of my lists are better than 99% of those out there. I like this list, but it's fragile.

So are my Dark Eldar. Pack a punch, can't take one.

I can live with it.

This list is not a very good KoS list, and it's not a very good shooty list either. Dark Eldar, at least when built right, can be very effective.

Stelek wrote:
Indeed. That isn't exactly what I meant. I meant you can hide them more than 36" away and be out of ground slogger heavy bolter range.

Any space marine player that wants to fire his (usual) heavy bolter squad or vehicle (meaning 1) at my kannons and ignore my trukks is welcome to the 70 points.

Don't I win against such stupidity?

You can try to deploy them well sure, but good luck always getting that cover in the back 6" of your deployment zone AND having a good fire lane to boot. Most games you have to put them in cover where they can actually do something useful, and that's rarely in optimal conditions most of the times I've played.

And this does little to stop vehicles from coming out and doing the duty. Speeders are a very real threat.

Stelek wrote:
So on the offchance this happens:

Game 1, out of 120 guys, I get paired with the Necron player...ok, I'll keep it in mind.

SMS makes my list go away quickly? That's an amusing thought. I fear the crisis suits far more myself, but hey if you think devilfish and hammerheads are going to get within 24" of my army without getting blown up...well, that's ok then.

Anyway I can only hope someone decides to take a shooty army and kill my lootas, then my artillery, and then my trukks. Because by the time this happens, my orks should be just about finished mopping up said shooty army.

You won't catch Eldar with the Trukks and if they eliminate your Lootas (the only threat to the holotanks) then they can dance around and pick you apart. And Tau can use the Skimmers to block Trukk assaults on their Suit base. They can eliminate many targets per turn. I don't know how you plan to hide everything 24"+ away from them when they move 12" and shoot 24" with no LOS required AND they can shoot the railgun submunitions at your lootas or artillery, AND then there's the Devilfish's SMS to contend with.

The army has a lot of Bad Matchups. If you're assuming 5th Ed, then things change, but I wouldn't run KoS without Screening Battlewagons, but that's just my experience since I don't like to depend on terrain in all my games.

Stelek, your post above confuses me. Is your goal to win the GT, or just have fun? Your explanations for the list and unit choices are just bizarre.

You mentioned in your "2 cents" that you assume this GT will be held using 5th Edition. How does your list take advantage of that?

You've got units to amuse you, but you want to win. You're trying to improve your "soft" scores, but you're still trying to win battles against hard-core lists.

What I (and many Dakkites, I'm sure) would like to see is you taking one of your unusual, but self-claimed power lists, to the GT. If you do well, you'll gain credibility for your unique angle on things. If not, you won't.

I'm sure you don't care about your credibility on Dakka, but I (and, I'm sure, others) are genuinely interested to see how your lists will perform in a higher-level, competitive environment. I don't get many games in currently (Iraq), so I don't get many chances to try out your theories.

Either way, your feedback and opinions will continue, I'm sure, to generate thought and controversy, but it would be good to see whether your techniques would hold up when tested for all to see. If nothing else, that would be a good goal...to show those that disparage your approach that it is viable, in an event (GT) that is recognized as meaningful.

Stelek wrote:

So you really haven't played against a list like this, have you.

If you really believe deff koptas and storm boyz are going to make it across the board and pwn me, I don't know what to say really.

...

Yet you claim deff koptas and storm boyz will arrive and punk me in the same breath. Interesting.

....

You kill 3 of 7 and they're gone? Interesting. Which edition of 40k is this? 6th?

.....

Most of my lists are better than 99% of those out there. I like this list, but it's fragile.

So are my Dark Eldar. Pack a punch, can't take one.

I can live with it.

......

So on the offchance this happens:

Game 1, out of 120 guys, I get paired with the Necron player...ok, I'll keep it in mind.

SMS makes my list go away quickly? That's an amusing thought. I fear the crisis suits far more myself, but hey if you think devilfish and hammerheads are going to get within 24" of my army without getting blown up...well, that's ok then.

Anyway I can only hope someone decides to take a shooty army and kill my lootas, then my artillery, and then my trukks. Because by the time this happens, my orks should be just about finished mopping up said shooty army.

Its not the fact that you are getting other people's points of view, its that you respond in the way above. It just smacks of an arrogance that only the interwebs can bring. And I don't think you should be as arrogant as you are when you post sub-par lists and then ignore any criticism. In fact, the arrogance in general is getting quite old.

When I post a list, I am looking to Dakka to help me optimize what I can and remove waste. I leave my ego at home and have become a much better player as a result. Maybe you are so good that there is no room for improvement, but I doubt it.

And King of Kings is from a poem, I don't actually think I'm the king of kings.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Well, I guess we'll have to see.

I think it's better than you give it credit for.

Most of what you say about countering with a ork horde list just doesn't pan out in reality, but if it works for you great.

Ozymandias wrote:
And King of Kings is from a poem, I don't actually think I'm the king of kings.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

That you even had to say that speaks volumes about Stelek.

ender502

I didnt know it was a poem.

Must speak volumes about me too....like the fact I think poetry is for girls and a waste of time.

*picks up his x-box controller and puts out a cigarette on a nearby Edgar Allen Poe book*

(Poe used because he's the only poet I can summon in my mind at this time, because he seems to be everyones favorite poet when they want to seem learned)

Ender, give it a rest.

"Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

Think I don't know exactly what the poem means?

Don't call yourself Ozymandias, post crap, and not think people aren't laughing at you.

"If anyone would know how great I am and where I lie, let him surpass one of my works."

Ok, I surpassed all of your works when I woke up this morning.

Next bad literary reference, please!

ender502 wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:
And King of Kings is from a poem, I don't actually think I'm the king of kings.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

That you even had to say that speaks volumes about Stelek.

ender502

This post is just a useless waste of space. It's an unnecessary attack at Stelek and doesn't bring anything constructive to this thread. If I start quoting bits of poetry or literature that you've never heard of does that make you less of a person? Seriously, save this crap for yourself. Take a deep breath and just click the Forum Index icon and move on next time.

I too hate poetry.

Except the one about beans being a magical fruit. That one is a classic.