Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As the title says, some problems i encountered both playing and figuring. Can you help?

Move charging units

Basically the rules say:
"Start the charge by moving a single model from the charging unit, Move the model into with the nearest ENEMY model."

While the Example says:
"Ork 1 is closest MODEL to the enemy and therefore is moved into contact with the closest space marine."

So, do you start by moving your closest model or a model of your choice into the nearest enemy model?

Saves in close combat

How does it work when you have more Wounds then models when you have different saves?
Let’s say a squad of 5 marines with 1 shield suffers say 8 wounds? (From a PWep)

Rulebook says
“If a unit takes enough wounding hits in one Initiative step to cause one or more wounds on every engaged model, the attacking player nominates one engaged model to make the first save. After this, all other saving throws are made normally.”

I can’t even understand where they’re going with this wording?

Mephiston in close combat
There is a little mention of this in the BA faq. But I’m not sure it helps.

Now have a tricky one for you, lets say Mephiston is fighting 1 warboss with a 4 nobs.
For arguments sake let’s say all are in base contact with him. He sucessfully transfixes 2 nobs and the warboss.

Faq says
“Treat each transfixed model as a separate one-model unit, in the same as an independent character engaged in close combat. Any attacks directed against a transfixed model hit automatically, but can only damage that model and not the other members in its unit.”

Then comes the conundrum, page 45 “multiple combats says

“Models in base contact with the enemy must allocate their attacks against a unit they are in base contact with.”

This basically means that he can choose to fight 1 warboss, 1 nob, 1 nob or the 2 nobs that are not transfixed, right?

Bla_Ze wrote:As the title says, some problems i encountered both playing and figuring. Can you help?

Move charging units

Basically the rules say:
"Start the charge by moving a single model from the charging unit, Move the model into with the nearest ENEMY model."

While the Example says:
"Ork 1 is closest MODEL to the enemy and therefore is moved into contact with the closest space marine."

So, do you start by moving your closest model or a model of your choice into the nearest enemy model?

They should be one and the same. You nominate a primary enemy unit that you are charging (it must be the enemy unit they fired at in the previous shooting phase if they fired) and you move the model in your unit that is the closest to any model in that enemy unit you are charging.

Saves in close combat

How does it work when you have more Wounds then models when you have different saves?
Let’s say a squad of 5 marines with 1 shield suffers say 8 wounds? (From a PWep)

Rulebook says
“If a unit takes enough wounding hits in one Initiative step to cause one or more wounds on every engaged model, the attacking player nominates one engaged model to make the first save. After this, all other saving throws are made normally.”

I can’t even understand where they’re going with this wording?

This is the close combat version of the rule commonly referred to as the "torrent of fire" rule that is presented on page 26 of the rulebook (for shooting wounds).

In close combat, what it is saying is that if you cause equal to or more wounds than there are models in the potential 'kill zone' then the attacking player gets to choose a single model that has to make a save (but the defending player still gets to choose which wound to save against).

So let's change your example so that the five (engaged) marines (one with a combat shield & PFist) suffers 6 wounds all from the same Initiative step, with 2 of those being power weapon wounds.

Since the attacking player has caused 6 wounds and there are only 5 models in the potential 'kill zone' that means he gets to choose one model which MUST make a save. The attacking player really wants to kill the PFist/combat shield model before he strikes back so he nominates that model to take the wound.

The defending player really wants that guy to survive, so he chooses to save against one of the regular wounds on the model's basic 3+ save. The defending player makes the save.

Now, the rest of the wounds are allocated normally, meaning 2 models are removed for the PWeapon attacks (unless you wanted to put one of them on the PFist/CShield guy to try your luck with the invulnerable save) and three '3+' saves are taken for the remaining wounds.

Basically this rule is in place to allow the attacking player to force an 'extra' save against a high priority target (almost always a PFist guy) so that way the PFist guy isn't always the last man standing in his unit.

Mephiston in close combat
There is a little mention of this in the BA faq. But I’m not sure it helps.

Now have a tricky one for you, lets say Mephiston is fighting 1 warboss with a 4 nobs.
For arguments sake let’s say all are in base contact with him. He sucessfully transfixes 2 nobs and the warboss.

Faq says
“Treat each transfixed model as a separate one-model unit, in the same as an independent character engaged in close combat. Any attacks directed against a transfixed model hit automatically, but can only damage that model and not the other members in its unit.”

Then comes the conundrum, page 45 “multiple combats says

“Models in base contact with the enemy must allocate their attacks against a unit they are in base contact with.”

This basically means that he can choose to fight 1 warboss, 1 nob, 1 nob or the 2 nobs that are not transfixed, right?

You've got it. If you want to strike a transfixed model, all your attacks go on that one particular model.

Thanks for the answers
More or less how we were playing, didint know about the forcing save thingy thou

Getting back to my first question, i dont think you understod from my crappy english

I did a little drawing to simpify. Lets say that the green dots are guardsmen with a officer in front. And the blacks are CSM with abba as red.
I know about the normal assault rules, range and whatnot. Lets say im in range and only shot a plasma pistol or whatever.

"Start the charge by moving a single model from the charging unit, Move the model into with the nearest ENEMY model."

Gives me the option of "blocking" abbadon by engaging him with a guardsman. and then engaging the closest csm with my officer (i like those ods better ;D)

"Ork 1 is the closest MODEL to the enemy and therefore is moved into contact with the closest space marine."

While this option forces me to engage him with my officer (and thus FAILING hard)

If you follow the full set of rules for moving the first model, there is no conflict between the diagram and the rules:

"Start the charge by moving a single model from the charging unit. The model selected must be the one which can reach the enemy by using the least amount of its available movement. Move the model into contact with the nearest enemy model in the unit being charged, using the shortest possible route."


The rules are clear. For the first model moved, it must be the one who can reach the enemy by using the least amount of its move possible and therefore in your example your officer would have to charge Abbaddon, however this would definitely be *your* mistake because you have the option of 'setting up your charge' by the final placement of your models in the movement phase.

After the first model is moved, the restrictions on moving your charging models are much more relaxed so the only thing you need to worry about in the movement phase (ultimately) is who the closest model to the enemy unit you are going to charge is.