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Quite simply: How can WH/DH compete with Tau?
Much more complexly: How can WH/DH, excluding the use of sisters with a WH parent list be kitted out to compete with Tau?

I played 3 games last night (500 points using combat patrol guidelines mind you, already at a disadvantage besides my own aversion to good units) against Tau and was horribly slaughtered 2 games and managed a tie in 1 game, mostly thanks to a Callidus assassin. I can't field much in the way of ranged weapons unless I have very expensive inquisitor retinues of gun servitors, my assault units are too expensive to survive Suits, and all that seemed to work was the Callidus and Grey Knight Teleport attack.

So, besides just grabbing ankle, what are decent builds using WH with DH allies against Tau or is my penchant for using models I like rather than models that are good just assuring I'll just consistently lose, especially to Tau?

Tau Crisis suits are nasty at lower point levels since other armies find it difficult to match their mobility. If you are able to use Imperial Armor items I'd suggest taking a griffon with inferno shells. While it recently got slightly neutered, it will force the Tau player to change his tactics instead of relying on JSJ units to win him the game.

Capt K

Yeah, I don't see what you're going to do at 500 points as a pure WH/DH against tau. Maybe if you allied with IG and jammed a indirect firing basilisk in there to make him have to show himself, otherwise, I don't know.

at 500 points you can jam 5 plasma/missile suits in 4 squads (hq and 3 elites) along with your min sized FW and/or Kroot squad. With JSJ that amount of anti-MEq, anti-TEq, and anti-light vehicle firepower at 24" and 36" is just too much. I rolled around ideas like a rhino or chimera rush to try to flush them out, or trying to stick a callidius or teleporting terminators in there so they can't hide, but neither seems worth the points or what else you have to buy.

I think the answer is don't play at 500 points. But someone might have a better idea than me. at 1000 points some more options open up, and a mounted WH force would at least be able to take the fight to them.

Thanks for the ideas. The games were part of a builder league, so the point values will steadily increase, which gives me more options.

But being quite new to WH and DH, I'm still not sure what, at a higher point limit, I can use.

I was thinking of chimeras for the ML to try and down Fish or loaded with storm troopers with plasma. I also even thought of 3 Multi-Melta servitors, but then it becomes a very expensive unit that is still easily downed by mass fire.

Any thoughts on builds or tactics for higher level games to combat Tau?

Autocannons are good against their tanks. Heavy Bolters are good against their infantry. Indirect artillary barrages are good against the crisis suits.

If I were to build a 500 pt army specifically designed to take out Tau, it would look something like:

WH 500 pts
OM Inq w/ Psycannon - 50
Callidus Assassin - 120
12 Battle Sisters, 2 Meltas, VSS - 168
8 Retributors, 4 HvyBolters, VSS - 162

(If you think that you need an OH Inq to run the assassin, then drop 2 Battle Sisters to get an OH Inq w/ Bolter.)

Psycannons are good against shield drones.

Blessed ammunition, Heavy flamers and those psycannon flamers are good against Tau in general.

I think Crises suits are just something you have to deal with.

Do not underestimate meltaguns vs Crises suits.

My gut is that an Assassin is a waste of points. Death cults are good but I don't how good in 500. It's possible they are easy to pick off early.

Autocannons are great for dealing with tau skimmers, as are the bassie, but I can't get a bassie with a WH parent list.

Most of my problems stem from the fact for my own fluff reasons, I only use inquisitors, assassins, stormtroopers, flagellants, penitent engines and the like, so no sisters at all.

This may just end up ensuring I get creamed by any slightly competent Tau player as not having guard ensures my firepower is limited and not having sisters ensures the same.

For smaller games I thought of doing a chimera rush with storms and plasma, a bolter inquisitor for HQ, a DH inquisitor for powerclaws, acolytes, and a rhino, and a callidus.

But really, when limited as I am, I am expecting to just lose, but hopefully learn to play a bit smarter. Any other tactics are always appreciated and thanks for the thoughts.

What is your list, if you do not mind me asking.

Here is a Claws list.

Malleus Lord
-> TL LC
Acolyte x2
Familiar
Rhino
-> Smoke

5x GK

5x Storm Troopers
2x Plasma
Chimera
-> 2x HB

First turn, hide Rhino and Chimera. They rush up 12" and pop smoke. Grey Knights deploy at the line, march up and shoot 24". Death Cult does something sneaky.

Second turn everything gets out and marches 6". Chimera shoots something, Rhino shoots something or tank shocks (Rhino SB can force a morale check), GK keep walking, Death Cult does something sneaky or mean.

Continue ...
Continue ...
Tau die. stinkin' Tau!

One thing about Tau. If a turn goes by and you move but they don't get to shoot anything, you just gained an advantage. Emperor's Tarot in there would help too.

My list is this at 1000 points. Not sure what I'd shave for 750, which is the next phase of the league.

HQ:
WH Inquisitor Lord - 135
Carapace
Storm bolter
3 x Gun Servitors w/ Heavy bolters

DH Inquisitor Lord - 207
TL LC
Emperor's Tarot
Krak Grenades
1 x Warrior w/ Pistol/CC wep
3 x Acolytes w/ Power armor
Rhino w/ Smoke/EA/Dozer

5 x Stormtroopers - 163
2 x Plasma
Chimera w/Multi-laser/HB/Smoke/EA

5 x Stormtroopers - 163
2 x Plasma
Chimera w/ Multi-laser/HB/Smoke/EA

Callidus - 120

5 x Grey Knights Teleport - 200
Justicar
2 x Psycannon

That's 5 heavy bolters, 2 multi-lasers, 2 psycannons, a CC unit that should do alright against Tau (save for Kroot)

My tactic is pretty much what Taco laid out. First turn, rush out 12" and pop smoke. WH inquisitor sits in cover and hopefully thins out any kroot or what not, or if moving something 6" with Word In Your Ear gives me a clean shot at a suit or side on a skimmer. Second turn, move up six, chimeras firing if they can, stormtroopers plasma death anything they can, DH inquisitor looks to lock something in combat, hope for reserves. Grey Knights aim for skimmers, callidus for hiding Suits. Pray to emperor and hope I don't get more embarrassed than usual.

Your WH Inq could be better configured. No Chirurgeons? I think a BoLS-pattern retinue would serve you well.

What is "TL LC" on your DH Inq? You mean dual LC? In any case, I think you are getting tremendously little bang for your buck with that unit. 200+ points just to hopefully lock something in CC? Why not put those points towards making them a decent shooting unit instead?

At the 500 pt level, Psycannons are good against anything that can be fielded.

The Callidus is generally wasted. However, against Tau she can ensure contact with a JSJ unit and kills suits quite nicely.

Lemurking - for your list, you should probably get 2 Chirurgeons and a carapace wearing Acolyte in your WH Lord's retinue (the much-ballyhooed mkerr/BoLS -pattern).
Then somewhat mirror that in your DH Lord (in fact, he should probably be an Elite Inq)
DH Inq w/ Psycannon, Emperor's Tarot
2 Mystics
1 Acolyte w/ Bolter, Carapace
2 HvyB Gun Servitors
1 Plasma Cannon Gun Servitor

I know many people are fans of the BoLS WH retinue, by my experience with Tau is that trying to outshoot them as anything but IG or Orks doesn't work too well, for me at least but I have admitably not played Eldar, I imagine they can put up a good shooting match. In a game against Tau, I had the standard BoLS retinue and it did alright, but I felt like with my model count already so low, I needed as many points as possible free to get more stuff. But maybe my limited experience with it has not given it a chance to shine. I'll try running it again a few more times and see what happens. Not sure how another shooting Inquisitor would work, seems like JSJ would just eat away at it.

Anyway, I like the Dual (sorry, not TL) Lightning claws as they allow the Inquisitor to hit at initiative and reroll wounds, this increases survivability as a Inquisitor can take down a Suit in a round before anybody else swings. A powerfist or Eviscerator would probably kill more, but leave the inquisitor open. On the other hand, against Tau, not as if there are a lot of hidden pfists and what not, so maybe I'll try using another configuration.

The DH inquisitor does want to do damage and will to Tau, it won't just be locked in combat, excuse my phrasing if it causes any confusion.

Callidus ensures contact with JSJ and, according to the common consensus in the league, neural shredder counts as str 8 for instadeath purposes, so one 1 wound = 1 dead suit. So far she has been the only thing I have that earns back her points against Tau and then some.

I may alter the list to drop down to Rhino's as I thought that chances are, the chimeras will never get to shoot, so why waste 30 points each vehicle? This limits my firepower but really, against Tau, I don't plan on getting into a shooting war unless I have my bassie's.

To be sure, the BoLS-pattern WH ret won't last very long against Tau if they're focussed, but the way you're fielding it now, it will achieve even less IMO.

I imagine the DH Inq will indeed put the hurt on Tau, but very few things won't, and there must be some more efficient way to do it! You could have a BSS Rhino squad with an Evis VSS for exactly that price (before adding specials and BoSL). Not exactly a kickass CC squad either, but better than the DH ret--more bodies and none of that IC vulnerability.

The Cally is great against Tau. I don't know what people are complaining about.

I would make the WH Inquisitor the elite flavor. Paying more for extra stats you won't use, plus paying more on top of that lot make her armor save worse is silly. An elite Inq. will get you the armor save you are looking for and save you over 25 points to boot.

Instead of a DH Inq. Lord who doesn't use the best DH gear (Psycannon in my opinion) why not take a WH Lord with power weapon and crusaders/powerfist servitors. More power attacks in melee, and while you forego rerolls to wound, it isn't too hard to wound a suit with that many attacks.

Honestly, I would switch up both. Make the DH an Elite with psycannon, tarot and servitors. Make the WH a Lord with Power weapon/bolt pistol and familier, a few acolytes, and a few crusaders/powerfists. (I intend to run something similar, though with a power stake, mancatchers, chiurgeons and landraider for super points sink action.) I really think your best bet is not re-rolling a few to wounds, but just over powering the opponant with attacks that ignore armor.

This is true, it doesn't take much to hurt Tau. A sister squad or celestians would be a much better choice, but due to my own restrictions, can't take them.

I figure the DH Inq, while expensive, will rock any suits he hits with str 6 powerwep attacks with the evisc/pfist, has 3 wounds, and 3 acolytes with a 3+ save to absorb hits. Kroot would eat him alive, but such is life. I like the DH lord for the lightning claws against Termies, but yah, it seems that a WH lord would be better off in CC form against Tau. I'll probably end up having the DH inq as an elite with pyscannon and some gun servitors.

This is the new 1000 point anti-tau list I drew up, with the many helpful suggestions I've heard.

HQ: 237
WH Inq Lord
Eviscerator
3 Acolytes w/ carapace
2 crusaders
1 combat servitor
Rhino w/ Extra armor/smoke/dozer blades

Troops: 266
2 x 5 stormtroopers w/ 2plasma and Rhino w/ EA/smoke/dozer

Callidus - 120

DH Inq - 176
Pyscannon
Emperor's Tarot
1 mystic
2 gun servitors w/ HB
1 gun servitor w/ Plasma Cannon
1 x sage

5 x Grey Knights Teleport Attack
Justicar
2 x Pyscannon

Same principle as the last time, rhinos rush forward, wait for reserves, DH inq finds a piece of cover and hopefully puts some fire on suits and skimmers.

I thought about trying to shave off 70 points to take a Lance strike in the off hopes I can key in a likely terrain spot the suits will abuse, but then the scatter is so high it might not matter.

Against tau in particular, I'd consider changing your WH inquisitor up a bit. Rather than the ranged version that you have, I'd be inclined to take a WH inquisitor lord with the psychic power that makes enemy squads take a morale test as if they'd taken 25% casualties from shooting, with their Ld reduced by the difference between their Ld (usually 8) and the WH Inquisitor Lord (10).

This tactic has been very effective for me, and tau really don't have a defense. The only weakness I see is that it won't work if the tau player is primarily mounted or if he plays a lot of JSJ suits (since I think the power requires LOS).

When I take an inquisitor, I nearly always take a WH inquisitor with that psychic power. The ability to make people run away is invaluable, and against tau, who have no psychic defense, it's brutal (unless, as I've said, the tau are mounted or have a lot of models that stay out of LOS). Against other armies, who have better Ld (but are not fearless), that Inquisitor build gets some synergies with either the culexus or vindicare assassin.

That's an interesting point about the power. I made my army based on fighting chaos/marines so I never gave it much thought, but against IG/Tau it would be a really good time. Get the Culexus in there, and you would be rocking all sorts of guys (not that the Culexus is ever easy to "get in there"). I might have to give that a shot on my melee Inq. when I break her out.

If you can slice 8 points out somewhere, I might recommend giving your DH another Sage. Getting a reroll on ANY miss in the unit is totally worth it with the plasma cannon.

Also, the lance strikes are worthless. I tried REALLY hard to make it work, going as far as taking ~12 in an Apocalypse game, and they still did very little. The trouble is not only drift, but that they are tied to a terrain peice. Generally once the first one goes off, drifts a foot or so, and misses, your opponant just avoids the area. Even if they don't, it is SO unlikely to hit anything unless they are packed tight that it does nothing.