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I want to make sure I know this in advance.. before I model it and try to use it..

I have a Tyranid Warrior, I want to put 2 Devourers on him, plus Toxin. This makes the Warrior S5, thus the Devourers are S4. Thanks to Assault X, this means a Devourer will have 4 dice, right? At S4, plus rerolls to wound with Living Ammo. Correct?

Now, if I arm this guy with 2 Devourers.. would that make em "twin linked" or just double the dice to 8 attack dice? (I kinda am hoping for the 8 dice thought, although 4 dice, rerolling misses, and then rerolling wounds would be nothing to sneer at)

Does this pan out properly, or am I way off base?

(and on a completely related note, would he be considered "Cheese"??!)

-Porkuslime

They become twin-linked! So 4 attackes, re-rolling missed & wounds.

And in no way would I consider this cheese, and I'm not even a tyranid player.

You can purchase two weapon-symbiotes for the Tyranid Warriors, not one weapon-symbiote twice. So no Twin-Linked Devourers.

I understand this is nit-picking.. but it does not expressly forbid taking the same symbiote twice, that I can find. It just says (paraphrased) "Pick two from this list"

.. it DOES say that if a Warrior has 2 ranged symbiotes they can only fire one per turn..

Nuts.

-Porkuslime

porkuslime wrote:I understand this is nit-picking.. but it does not expressly forbid taking the same symbiote twice, that I can find.

It doesn't have to. Being a permissive rules set, it would have to expressly permit taking the same symbiote twice in order to do so.

porkuslime wrote:It just says (paraphrased) "Pick two from this list"

Picking one item from the list twice is not picking two items.

It merely says pick two weapon symbiotes then gives the list.
The Carnifex & Tyrant have the same wording and you can pick TWO Scything Talons as a valid choice.

By your example a Hive Tyrant or Carnifex may not choose 2x Scything Talons. In fact you could not purchase twin-linked Venom Cannons or Barbed Stranglers with that example. (I'm not saying you should buy these in pairs by the way!)

It is clear that the Scything Talons choice being made twice on a single model is fine (see the 'Screamer Killer' pre-made Carnifex example, pg.47 Tyranid Codex) and thus sets a precedent for this very discussion.

Where picking more than one of a biomorph or weapon choice IS prohibited in the Tyranid codex it is specifically marked as such. A Carnifex is specifically forbidden from taking two sets of Crushing Claws, but no such restriction is placed on any of the other Weapon-Symbiotes in it's list (except those also marked specifically such as two tail weapon symbiotes or carapace symbiotes). Thus we can choose two Scything Talons or Two Deathspitters or Two Devourers on a single Carnifex, or Tyrant.

Devourers as a Weapon-Symbiote choice on the Warriors list do NOT have an exception note saying you may not pick two of them, as Crushing Claws do on the Carnifex. In fact there are many examples in the Tyranids codex where the actual exclusions are plainly noted. ANy other choice would be valid unless a note of exclusion is listed and still maintain consistency with the codex.

The only note on Warrior weapon choice is that they may only fire one per turn if they have two chosen, since choosing two of the same makes them twin-linked & that in turn only counts as firing one weapon... I don't see any problem.

TL-Devourers or even Deathspitters is a fine choice for the Warriors and work great!

A Carnifex is a different unit from Warriors. Just because one has the option to take the same symbiote twice doesn't mean that the other can as well.

Ghaz wrote:A Carnifex is a different unit from Warriors. Just because one has the option to take the same symbiote twice doesn't mean that the other can as well.

Your argument was that the wording says 'pick two'. The Carnifex, Tyrant & Warriors all have the SAME wording. The Carnifex does NOT have additional wording that would specifically allow you to make the same pick twice, neither does the Tyrant or Warrior.

Are you changing your argument to say that one unit may break the guideline you state without specific wording but another may not?

Please explain the Carnifex legally having two picks of Scything Talons when the Warrior may not have two picks of Devourer.

porkuslime wrote:I understand this is nit-picking.. but it does not expressly forbid taking the same symbiote twice, that I can find. It just says (paraphrased) "Pick two from this list"

.. it DOES say that if a Warrior has 2 ranged symbiotes they can only fire one per turn..

Nuts.

-Porkuslime

Although you can only fire one weapon symbiote, buying two of the same ranged weapon symbiote (according to the Tyranid codex) causes them to be Twin-Linked. According to the BGB firing a Twin-Linked weapon only counts as firing ONE weapon. So no worries there Porkuslime!

No, the wording is not identical. From the Warrior entry:

... must then also choose two weapon-symbiotes...

And from the Carnifex entry:

... must choose two from the weapon-symbiote column...

Ghaz wrote:No, the wording is not identical. From the Warrior entry:

... must then also choose two weapon-symbiotes...

And from the Carnifex entry:

... must choose two from the weapon-symbiote column...

I stand corrected on the identical wording statement, this does not provide an explanation on how this changes things regarding choosing the same Weapon-Symbiote twice. One from the weapon-symbiote column is still one. Yet it is picked twice in the 'Screamer-Killer' build. There are no exceptions listed that would, according to your original argument, allow the same choice from the weapon-symbiote column (or list of weapon-symbiotes) to be made unless it were a legal choice.

One choice twice is listed as viable multiple times in the codex. Invalidating that possibility would take more than a random assertion that it cannot be done. Twin linked weapons are even explained as to how/why they work for Tyranids.

Although saying that the explicitly allowed builds are not allowed is not out of the ordinary. . .

It actually states in the book when biomorphs are taken multiples cannot be used, however weapon-symbiotes are NOT THE SAME THING, as specifically differentiated by RAW, weapon symbiotes may be purchased multiple times and in fact count as twin-linked on all (non gargantuan) Tyranids.


This is confusing?

This is two different entries. . .

Or what am I missing this time?

Sevellyn wrote:They become twin-linked! So 4 attackes, re-rolling missed & wounds.

And in no way would I consider this cheese, and I'm not even a tyranid player.

Wrong!

2 attacks on profile, x2 for Twin-linked Devourers, that's 2*2 = 4
Then you buy another set of Twin-linked Devourers, adding up to a total of 8 shots with re-roll to hit and re-roll to wound.
So on a Carnifex, this would work. Only problem is, a warrior may not carry two win-linked weapons.

Back Foul Necromantic beast!

We'll let this go as there's a math dispute.

But it is 1 year and 3 months old!

Amareis wrote:
Wrong!

2 attacks on profile, x2 for Twin-linked Devourers, that's 2*2 = 4
Then you buy another set of Twin-linked Devourers, adding up to a total of 8 shots with re-roll to hit and re-roll to wound.
So on a Carnifex, this would work. Only problem is, a warrior may not carry two win-linked weapons.

You have confused me. Are you stating a warrior cannot take 1 twinl-linked Devourer to get 4 shots that re-roll to hit and wound?
Pg 30 of the codex describes what happens if you take two of the same ranged weapon and the rate of fire of that weapon.
Pg 37 of the codex allows you to take the Devourer weapon twice.
Pg 31 of the main rulebook allows you fire one twin-linked weapon as a single weapon.
All of this adds up to a warrior being able to fire 4 shots (At a very low BS) and re-roll to hit and wound.

Now I may have totally wasted your time be restating what you said but I did not understand what you were communicating. If so, my bad.

My diction is terrible.

Adept, the thing is, a Carnifex can take TWO Twin Linked Devourers. So you get 4 shots EACH

He's tried to say that you can take four devourers for eight twin linked shots.

This, however, is most certainly not allowed as the weapon lists allow you to select two choices only and there is no option to select twin-linked weapons (they become twin-linked when you select two of them)

Scott-S6 wrote:He's tried to say that you can take four devourers for eight twin linked shots.

This, however, is most certainly not allowed as the weapon lists allow you to select two choices only and there is no option to select twin-linked weapons (they become twin-linked when you select two of them)

Actually, if you read the Carnifex Rules, you will see that "Twin Linked Devourer" is an Option. As such, a "Twin Linked Devourer" only takes up 1 Biomorph slot, so you can take 2 "Twin Linked Devourer" just fine.

On a Warrior it is different though.

Gwar! wrote:Adept, the thing is, a Carnifex can take TWO Twin Linked Devourers. So you get 4 shots EACH

I totally misunderstood the post. I kit my Fexes like this to get the 8 shots for them. It works great against most things. Not so good against things with feel no pain and toughness 4+. I stand corrected.

@Soctt-S6 Pg 46 of the codex allows you to take a twin-linked devourer as one weapon choice. Why wouldn't a carnifex be allowed to take that twice since it is from the same list? Or are you saying a Warrior couldn't do this? With that I agree totally.

Amareis wrote:

Sevellyn wrote:They become twin-linked! So 4 attackes, re-rolling missed & wounds.

And in no way would I consider this cheese, and I'm not even a tyranid player.

Wrong!

2 attacks on profile, x2 for Twin-linked Devourers, that's 2*2 = 4
Then you buy another set of Twin-linked Devourers, adding up to a total of 8 shots with re-roll to hit and re-roll to wound.
So on a Carnifex, this would work. Only problem is, a warrior may not carry two win-linked weapons.

WoW!!! Congratulations are definitely in order.

On your very first post you managed to

Necro a 15 month old thread
Be unnecessarily rude and confrontational, and best of all..
Be Wrong!


I officially nominate you for Worst First Post Evar!!


And he was correct, two devourers would act as one twin linked, so 4 shots, reroll misses..... just like he said.

coredump wrote:I officially nominate you for Worst First Post Evar!!

Can I still have the Lifetime Achievement award for Worst Postar Evar?

This, however, is most certainly not allowed as the weapon lists allow you to select two choices only and there is no option to select twin-linked weapons (they become twin-linked when you select two of them)

1-year and 3 Months and people STILL don't get it...

A Hive Tyrant so equipped gets a whopping 12 shots!

Scott-S6 wrote:He's tried to say that you can take four devourers for eight twin linked shots.

This, however, is most certainly not allowed as the weapon lists allow you to select two choices only and there is no option to select twin-linked weapons (they become twin-linked when you select two of them)

Sorry, should have been more specific - not allowed for warriors (that's what the thread's about, right?)