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I am just getting back into Fantasy and I have always liked the idea of an etheral army and the Wraith look cool. The question is, are they worth 50 points a model. It seems very pricy and I am not sure etheral make up for the points. What are other people's experience with them?

The Wraith

the_wraith wrote:I am just getting back into Fantasy and I have always liked the idea of an etheral army and the Wraith look cool. The question is, are they worth 50 points a model. It seems very pricy and I am not sure etheral make up for the points. What are other people's experience with them?

The Wraith

In small units they are awfully vulnerable to magical attacks, altough the banshee in particular can be really annoying vs some armies. In maxed units they are royal pain in the ass vs. pretty much everybody, especially if you steer them away from ratling guns and such. If you go the latter route it's good to notice that the units costs 500+, so you kinda have to focus the rest of your army to work in tandem with them.

Thanks, I did not realise ratling gun were magical. That is going to be my biggest problem, knowing what can hurt them......

The Wraith

I personally think they're great support units. Keep em screened from magic / ratling guns and use terror and banshee scream on enemy units. As a side note they can use banshee scream to stand and shoot

If they didn't have 2 wounds, they'd be useless. Since they do have 2 wounds, and can be healed, I think they're great.

2 S5 attacks each, M6 skirmishing ethereals. These guys add some great maneuverability and CR through wounds to your army.

They can beat down enemy skirmishers, monsters, or shooters if needed, and can flank and chew up enemy block or cavalry units (4 models can get into contact with the side of an enemy knight) which are stuck into your infantry blocks.

Magic Missiles, daemons and forest spirits (and Ratling guns) are all dangerous, but these guys can easily run up behind/through cover to avoid LOS, and can outrun most enemy daemons or forest spirits. Even against those kind of units, if you get the charge you'll still beat Dryads, Wild Riders, or Furies, which are the most common types to see. What you want to AVOID, however, is charging and killing one 96pt unit of eight Dryads, then getting countercharged and hacked up by another.

I think the biggest tactical challenge with them is keeping them close enough to be healed, while still taking full advantage of their mobility.

Thanks for the reply, Mannahnin. What about running your lord with them as an Etheral creature too. I leary because you are not able to take magic items, but I like the concept quite a bit. It would also keep the main caster with the wraiths to heal them.

The Wraith

This is mostly theoryhammer for me so far. I agree with you that giving up magic items on your lord is a scary prospect. How much does the ethereal power cost again? Could you reasonably give it to a hero vampire while still having him do the healing? He could alternatively take Talisman of the Lycni for extra speed and run around near/behind them.

"Spectral Form" = ethereal, right? Pretty sure that maxes a hero vamp's powers right out.

- Salvage

EDIT -- Does the hellstead make the vamp ethereal too? Or close enough for movement purposes?

The steed does not make the character ethereal, so he could not join an ethereal unit. I'm pretty sure the main rulebook also forbids characters on any sort of mount from joining skirmishers anyway.

Agreed on both then. So naked lvl 1 vamp can run with the wraiths if that really helps, or needs much larger, questionable investment to stick a lord in with them.

- Salvage

Wraiths get 3 S5 attacks each, can only be damaged by magical attacks, have two wounds each, skirmish, ignore terrain, can be healed, and cause terror. It all sounds pretty tasty!

But last week my opponent charged my big block o'night goblins in the front with five wraiths and the flank with three fell bats. After passing both fear & terror tests, the gobbos netted the wraiths, reducing them to S4, and the wraiths proceeded to kill exactly two goblins. The next turn I pummeled the wraiths with Fists of Gork, killing two. They duffed their rolls, the gobbos killed a bat, and both wraiths & bats succumbed to combat res. It was hil-arious.

Theoryhammer can only take you so far. When you actually have to roll the dice, the best-laid plans can gang agley.

still in the right hands the wraiths can be darn nasty, they just cut things down if used correctly.

i think the best way is 4-5 wraiths and a banshee. move along the opponents side and harass their blocks, then use them for extra combat res when a block unit charges/is charged. of course that's theory too, but if done right then some nasty consequences are abound. also you could use a really small unit as gun hill killers as they can get anywhere, they just run up and cut the gun hill down of any empire/dwarf/dark elf/high elf players. horay!

fellblade wrote:But last week my opponent charged my big block o'night goblins in the front with five wraiths and the flank with three fell bats. After passing both fear & terror tests, the gobbos netted the wraiths, reducing them to S4, and the wraiths proceeded to kill exactly two goblins. The next turn I pummeled the wraiths with Fists of Gork, killing two. They duffed their rolls, the gobbos killed a bat, and both wraiths & bats succumbed to combat res. It was hil-arious.

Theoryhammer can only take you so far. When you actually have to roll the dice, the best-laid plans can gang agley.

MY Theoryhammer, as a WE player of many years, says never expect a unit of skirmishers to beat a ranked block from the front. That's an only-when-desparate move anyway.

There is a difference between the average skirmishing unit and carn wraiths with someone using the helm of commandement.

18-21 ws6 str 5 attacks and taking no damage in return because of wraith status...
That should usually kill a lot.

And five wraiths killing 2 gobbos is a fluke, even with nets.

yes they are good but there some really good options aswell in rare like black coaches, vargulfs and blood knights.... and before everyone complains about blood knights can you honestly complain with chosen khorne knights with lances and strength 4 horses...

all you have to do to use blood knights well is to put a unit of dire wolves in front of them to prevent the frenzy charge and then Van Hels them wherever you want them to charge

all you have to do to use blood knights well is to put a unit of dire wolves in front of them to prevent the frenzy charge and then Van Hels them wherever you want them to charge

Most opponents see that coming a mile away and save scrolls for it. Once they are out in the open (have to be if you wanted to vandance them) then they are free game again.

As far as carn wraiths go they are awesome. 6 of them with the helm should be able to take out most ranked units, even from the front. They also work wonders against knight units (not grail knights, shame on you for thinking it).