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Hey all, just wondering what the forum goers' opinions are on my new 1k sons list. Essentially a bolter-rush list with raptors and lord flying along flank using rhinos for cover to get into CC. Obliterators obviously there to provide crossing firelanes and support the assault. Don't hate the layout. Be gentle

1850 Pts - Chaos Marines Roster - Thousand Sons

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 165 Pts)
1 Chaos Lord @ 165 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Death Screamer; Fearless; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack; Mark of Tzeentch

Elite: Terminators (5#, 245 Pts)
4 Terminators @ 245 Pts
Lightning Claws (pair) (x4); Icon of Tzeentch; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Terminator Champion @ [50] Pts
Lightning Claws (pair) (x1); Mark of Tzeentch

Troops: Thousand Sons (10#, 309 Pts)
8 Thousand Sons @ 309 Pts
Bolter; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful; Inferno Bolts; Personal Icon; Mark of Tzeentch; Rhino
1 Aspiring Sorceror @ [70] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; Fearless; Doombolt; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Rhino @ [50] Pts
Twin Linked Bolter; Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

Troops: Thousand Sons (10#, 309 Pts)
8 Thousand Sons @ 309 Pts
Bolter; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful; Inferno Bolts; Personal Icon; Mark of Tzeentch; Rhino
1 Aspiring Sorceror @ [70] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; Fearless; Doombolt; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Rhino @ [50] Pts
Twin Linked Bolter; Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

Troops: Thousand Sons (10#, 309 Pts)
8 Thousand Sons @ 309 Pts
Bolter; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful; Inferno Bolts; Personal Icon; Mark of Tzeentch; Rhino
1 Aspiring Sorceror @ [70] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; Fearless; Doombolt; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Rhino @ [50] Pts
Twin Linked Bolter; Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

Fast Attack: Raptors (6#, 210 Pts)
5 Raptors @ 210 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Meltagun (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Icon of Tzeentch; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Champion @ [60] Pts
Lightning Claws (pair); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Mark of Tzeentch

Heavy Support: Obliterators (2#, 150 Pts)
2 Obliterators @ 150 Pts
Power Fist; Obliterator Weapons; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful

Heavy Support: Obliterators (2#, 150 Pts)
2 Obliterators @ 150 Pts
Power Fist; Obliterator Weapons; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful

Total Roster Cost: 1847


Appreciate any input/criticism + or -!


P.S. comments on, suggestions for, and/or tearing apart of my overall strategy are all welcome

From what i see of the list you've accomplished what you set out to do. The only thoughts I have at first glance are... slaanesh on the termies? The only time I think you will want to be concerned about striking first with power weapons are in instances when you can't possibly go first. Banshees, Harlies, Genestealers, Death Company Most if not all of these units will strike you first, Jump pack DC should get furious charge off... anyways. those are just my initial thoughts. If you can find the points I would give em MoTZ for fluff and ability.

The MoS was a bit of a weird choice, I admit, I think I convinced myself it was a good idea due to the use of lightning claws as opposed to power fists.

List tweaked.

What are the terminators for? Counter assault? Protect the obliterators? I'm not sure I get what a 250 point assault unit that only moves 6" is for. I'd do something like take all those points and make the Raptor squad like 15 guys.

lambadomy wrote:What are the terminators for? Counter assault? Protect the obliterators? I'm not sure I get what a 250 point assault unit that only moves 6" is for. I'd do something like take all those points and make the Raptor squad like 15 guys.

Essentially the termies are there as the offensive assault, letting the lord and raptors charge ahead and port in with the lord's icon then kinda sweep along together.

If only that perfect storm happened more than once in a lifetime, bud.

The reason demon bombing works is because you can assault IMMEDIATELY without getting shot.

If you want to termie bomb, you better bring ALOT of termies (30+) or some very specialized rules (deathwing).

Otherwise, you're one plasma cannon template away from missing that perfect storm.

Stelek wrote:If only that perfect storm happened more than once in a lifetime, bud.

The reason demon bombing works is because you can assault IMMEDIATELY without getting shot.

If you want to termie bomb, you better bring ALOT of termies (30+) or some very specialized rules (deathwing).

Otherwise, you're one plasma cannon template away from missing that perfect storm.

So is that an agreement to the "mo' raptors" suggestion?

I guess instead of just more raptors you could do more raptors and a demon prince

I don't have the codex in front of me but I bet you could put a 155 point winged warptime prince and beef the raptor squad up to 12 men for the points spent on the terminators.

Since you already pay for the MoT you may as well make the squad large. Also, no one is afraid of 6 raptors, but 12+with a 3+/5+ save and the lord or prince backing them up can put the hurt on a lot of things, and whatever is not with the raptors can play counterassault to protect the TS.

Other than the Terminators I will say I like the list a lot, and would love to build/play something similar.

This is actually exactly what I was thinking, but I was contemplating completely removing the lord and just tossing in a DP into the beefed up squad. Thoughts?

New and improved list:

1850 Pts - Chaos Marines Roster - Thousand Sons

HQ: Daemon Prince (1#, 200 Pts)
1 Daemon Prince @ 200 Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Fearless; Wings; Bolt of Change (x1); Mark of Tzeentch; Warptime (x1)

HQ: Daemon Prince (1#, 200 Pts)
1 Daemon Prince @ 200 Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Fearless; Wings; Bolt of Change (x1); Mark of Tzeentch; Warptime (x1)

Troops: Thousand Sons (8#, 251 Pts)
7 Thousand Sons @ 251 Pts
Bolter; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful; Inferno Bolts; Personal Icon; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Sorceror @ [85] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; Fearless; Bolt of Change; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch

Troops: Thousand Sons (8#, 251 Pts)
7 Thousand Sons @ 251 Pts
Bolter; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful; Inferno Bolts; Personal Icon; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Sorceror @ [85] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; Fearless; Bolt of Change; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch

Troops: Thousand Sons (8#, 251 Pts)
7 Thousand Sons @ 251 Pts
Bolter; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful; Inferno Bolts; Personal Icon; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Sorceror @ [85] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; Fearless; Bolt of Change; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch

Fast Attack: Raptors (15#, 400 Pts)
14 Raptors @ 400 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Meltagun (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Icon of Tzeentch; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Champion @ [60] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Power Fist; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Mark of Tzeentch

Heavy Support: Obliterators (2#, 150 Pts)
2 Obliterators @ 150 Pts
Power Fist; Obliterator Weapons; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful

Heavy Support: Obliterators (2#, 150 Pts)
2 Obliterators @ 150 Pts
Power Fist; Obliterator Weapons; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful

Total Roster Cost: 1853

I was considering either using this list or removing a DP and giving the TS squads rhinos to add a bit of maneuverability. Thoughts!

TS do not need rhinos.

I think the list is fine as it is. I do think you can use another pair of oblits, but you'll have to decide that for yourself.

Mech Eldar with a Runeseer on the board will give you serious issues without that 3rd unit of oblits.

Do you really think the 3rd pair of oblits is worth shrinking the raptor squad?

I would think it would be better to remove MoT and bolt of change from the princes and make them cheaper (155) and then use the 90 points and a few raptors to add the oblits. DPs get shot up anyway, you want them to be in close combat not running two roles and giving up extra VPs when they die.

Yea, the BoC's where initially to help them tank bust, but now that I think about it they really don't need anymore help. It would be 3 raptors I'd be forced to remove which still leaves a nice amount (12) of them. I'm just wondering on the overall effectiveness of the oblits, seeing as how I already have 2 squads, seems a bit redundant to get a third after I have the 2 main diagonal firing lanes.

redundancy is good in 40k. Maybe you'll need to deep strike one squad of oblits. Maybe you double up on one firing lane or create a third by moving forward on a flank. I don't know. They don't just need to sit and shoot. They're the most effective anti-armor unit that Chaos has and give your opponent more things to worry about that they tend to shoot at with the same weapons they shoot at DPs, so it's all about target saturation.

Hmm, I see your point, 6 oblits are bound to draw some attention.

I'm a big fan of holding the third squad off the board to drop a multimelta down in behind or beside a Predator or landraider that's being particularly annoying and meltagunning them to death. The Deep Strike can be helpful with mech eldar too, Wave Serpents aren't shielded on the back side.

Cadian16th, you can never have too many oblits (well, if not for the fact that 3 is a bad squad size). Any time you can't use an extra lascannon or plascannon (or other weapon if you get closer) is a time when you've already won the game.

Cygnwulf, considering the lascannon shots you will have already given up by DSing them, I'm not sure you've made any significant gain.

I dunno, I still stand by my personal opinion on them, in that I seem to never manage to kill a serpent from the front. I've had games with 8 lascannons and more where I never manage to hurt the serpents until I can get rear armor on them.
Maybe it's just my own bad luck.