Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What is your evaluation of the various psychic powers, and what would a 1500 point army with a farseer hdqs want to have in an all comers list?

(1) which farseer psychic powerw
(2) war locks or no and if so, what warlock powers
(3) jet bikes or no?

Yes, no and maybe.

As with all things eldar, it depends on what you are doing. There are several builds that are good and several that are ok and several the just plain suck but it mostly depends on what the other units you have are. Here are some combos that work out well.

Farseer with doom + howling banshees. The farseer doesn't need to be with the banshees, just within 24" of their target. The doom on their target will significantly increase the number of models they kill.

Farseer with fortune + warlocks (one with enhance). This "command" squad ends up being on of the most resilient eldar units there are. 4+ I saves with a reroll are very hard to get though. This unit is a great tie up unit to tar pit enemies. It is also very good at killing tanks in hand to hand or at short range if you give some of them singing spears. You can also mount the whole squad on jetbikes if you want them super mobile but it is really expensive and I wouldn't suggest it at 1500 points.

Farseer with guide + long range shooty unit (dark reapers, war walkers, or possibly a falcon). Just have a bare bones farseer sit in the back field with guide improving the shooting power of one of your long range units.

Warlock spirit seer with conceal + wraithguard + farseer with fortune. Had this combo used on me recently and it is rather nasty. Normally I scoff at wraithguard, but with that much resilience on them, they are one really tough nut to crack.

Warlock with destructor and singing spear on a jetbike + guardian jetbikes. This squad has a lot of mobility, plenty of anti troop power and some anti tank punch as well. All around it is fairly tough by eldar standards and has lots of utility.

Farseer with eldritch storm + warp spiders. This is a rather odd combo but I've seen it work and it appears to be fairly fun to play. Use eldritch storm on vehicles and it spins them to face a direction determined by a scatter die (on a hit, you chose). If all goes well, the warp spiders will then be able to fire on the rear armor of the tank.

A few things to keep in mind
1) Make sure that all the powers you give to a farseer are going to be used every turn. Any unused power is a waste of points. With that in mind, only give a farseer 2 powers if you also give him spirit stones. Never give a farseer more than 2 powers.
2) Don't put warlocks with conceal into squads that are going to spend most (if not all) of the game in cover. It doesn't give you any additional benefit and it wastes a lot of points.
3) Make sure that the powers you give to your farseers and warlocks are going to be used. Putting destructor on a warlock that is going to be attached to a squad that sits in your back field is a waste. Giving fortune to a farseer who is going to sit in your back field is probably a waste. Giving guide to a farseer who is going to be running with a hand to hand based squad is also a waste.
4) If you give a farseer mind war, keep him out of hand to hand. Mind war is a shooting power, you need to be able to shoot to use it and you can't if you end up in hand to hand.
5) Farseers do not have to join the unit they are helping. In cases like the doom and the banshees, it's best if your farseer is as far from the action as possible. Each power has a range and unless you are using guide or fortune, it is enough range to use from well behind the squad that is benifiting from it. In the case of fortune, I would general recommend that the farseer be with the unit that is benifiting from it (so he can too).

for the farseer doom is good if you have alot of assault units like banshees or scorpions or the opposing army has alot of assault units. guide is highly effective with da or support platforms or dark reapers. mind war is good at neutrilizing enemy hereos its very fun to watch your enemys face as his favorite character goes bye bye. and the eldritch storm is rather good against vehicles and is usefull for spinning enemy vehicles and allowing you to target thier rear. as for the warlock attached to a da squad a warlocks conceal power can keep your da alive. and destructor can add fire power to a da squad. as for jetbikes giving the farseer a jetbike is a good idea for getting your farseer in range and quickly getting him in and out of combat.

Mostly have to repeat what the others said. For the beginning I would recommend to skip warlocks, because they are rather specialized and not a must have.

The best all around power imo is Doom because you will likely be able to use it to great effect every turn. Dire Avengers for example do benefit a lot.

A jetbike is optional. Your Farseer will have an esier time to reach tanks with his spear when mounted on a bike.

1) Any of them if you have a plan.

Doom: Avoid if you find your army has almost nothing but S6+ shooting and Rending (not uncommon, actually). Otherwise a no-brainer.

Fortune: An excellent power, but you have to be careful with it if you don't have a unit which your opponent will definitely have to target. Ask yourself this question: is it worth paying all those points in order to get my opponent to shoot at something other than this unit? (Units for which you can probably answer yes: Dark Reapers, Avatar in a Guardian-heavy army.) If not, can I guarantee that my opponent will have no choice but to target this unit? (Units for which you can probably answer yes: any assault unit.)

Guide: It's also excellent, but think long and hard before using this power. What do you plan on casting it on? If you're taking the Farseer as an optional HQ choice, could you, for his points cost, purchase instead as much firepower as you effectively gain from Guide? If you're fielding a squad of three War Walkers, for example, then Guide could be worthwhile (but think about what you'll use it on in the following turns, after the WWs die, as they do). The aforementioned WWs are pretty much the ideal target for Guide, since they combine BS3 with a ridiculous amount of firepower, giving you the highest gain. Other good candidates are those with BS3 and moderate firepower (Falcons, when they're not shaken) or BS4 but great firepower (Dark Reapers, large squads of Warp Spiders, Wraithlords to an extent). Also think about whether it'll be practical to stay close to the squad that needs Guidance.

Mind War: Worth using whenever you think you'll be near to the enemy and don't already have two of the above powers.

Eldritch Storm: Use when you fulfill the criteria for Mind War, but think anti-horde and a chance at anti-tank is more useful than sniping.

2) No, unless you have a plan.

3) Yes, unless you have a plan.

thanks so much all who replied.

It seems obvious that you guys must put farseers in unit OTHER than a group of warlocks.

I wasn't sure that was possible.

So it seems farseer on a bike with a spear is deemed okay. Not sure what unit to put him in (shining spears?) at any rate thanks.

In 4th ed, you don't need to join him to any unit. He's better off zooming around by himself, protected by the IC targetting restrictions. You definitely don't want to join Shining Spears as Withdraw doesn't transfer to Farseers.

I see

So right now (forgive me now to 40K) there are IC targetting restrictions.....and in 5th they supposedly go away? Or will it still be "can only target if they are the closest?"

It is funny - I read the rule book once, the codex once, looked at the big army box picture, and immediatley thought "farseer and warlock council on bikes" which in other threads here today, I see arguments about - some people thinking they are the best thing since rolled toilet paper, other thinking a bike council is what is on the toilet paper.

I also came to conclusions that (a) guardians with a heavy weapon and warlock with conceal can't suck as bad as some people claim for the points (b) Dire Avengers are great for the points and that it is a toss up between them and howling banshees in an assault vehicle.

Oh well we shall see.

I am really not sure what the current rumour is. All I know is that people are saying it will change.

Proxy the Council and try it yourself. Some like it, some don't. It's extremely hardy when Fortuned, to be sure, but it isn't all that killy and I don't like trying up so many points in one unit.

Concealed Guardians do kind of suck in that it's more efficient to just sit in terrain than get a Warlock and pay for Conceal. I'd put the Warlock's points towards other thigns, or even more Guardians.

Beriothien wrote:It seems obvious that you guys must put farseers in unit OTHER than a group of warlocks.

I wasn't sure that was possible.

Farseers are independent characters. They can join any non-vehicle unit they want in their movement phase. They can also leave a unit and join another (or not) in the movement phase. However, for the most part, you just want to sit near / behind another unit rather than joining them. If the farseer is not joined to a squad, he has to be the closest model to the enemy to be shot at. If he is joined to the squad, then he can be hit with torrent of fire or by the squad getting shot a lot. A farseer joined to a squad will also break and run if the squad does (and if its under half strength, neither the squad nor the farseer can rally) so joining a squad can actually be dangerous. The only times I have my farseers actually join squads is when he is fortuning a squad (since he will benefit from the fortune too if he's in the squad) or if he is accompanied by warlocks (because if you buy him a retinue, they have to be joined as a single squad).

So it seems farseer on a bike with a spear is deemed okay. Not sure what unit to put him in (shining spears?) at any rate thanks.

Farseers on bikes are very mobile and this allows them to spread around their powers to wherever they are needed most. The singing spear gives the farseer some ranged anti tank power as well but, in general, I don't like to get my farseers that close to the action. That's personal preference though. A few things to keep in mind with the bike farseer though:
1) You can join any non-vehicle unit, not just units on bikes. So don't limit yourself to just joining with shining spears or guardian jetbikes if you don't want to.
2) You still benefit from all the independent character rules. This means that you still have to be the closest model to be shot at. So a bike farseer on his own behind a squad of any other eldar unit (like guardians) can't be shot at.
3) While joined to a squad, you move at the speed of the slowest squad member, so if you do join a unit of foot troops and you don't leave them at the beginning of the movement phase, you will be reduced to 6" of movement. However, you can leave them, move, and then rejoin them if you are still within 2" of them.

Beriothien wrote:It is funny - I read the rule book once, the codex once, looked at the big army box picture, and immediately thought "farseer and warlock council on bikes" which in other threads here today, I see arguments about - some people thinking they are the best thing since rolled toilet paper, other thinking a bike council is what is on the toilet paper.

The unit is extremely tough since it has T4, 3+ saves with a reroll, and 4+ I saves with a reroll. Killing them requires extreme amounts of effort (or luck). They wound targets on a 2+ in hand to hand so they are great at killing high toughness units (fexes, eldar dreadnaughts), particularly if they have poor armor saves (not much in this category exists right now but maybe some day). They also are strength 9 against vehicles so they cut through them like butter. Combine all this with the extreme mobility of the bikes and the unit can be quite powerful. The real down side is that it's horribly expensive, but you get what you pay for. *shrug* So in the end, it's really up to you if you like the unit or not. I, myself, personally, would rather spend the points elsewhere in my army but I have no doubts that they can be a very effective unit.

I also came to conclusions that (a) guardians with a heavy weapon and warlock with conceal can't suck as bad as some people claim for the points

I like guardians with heavy weapons. They are cheap and help provide long range support to my army. They can be deployed forward of my main fire base and help intercept incoming assault or short ranged units. Best of all, since they are so cheap, they are expendable (bad eldar player, no eldar unit is expendable). All in all however, warlocks in their squads are a waste. 95% of the time the guardians will be deployed in cover which will give them a 4+ save (or at worst 5+) which makes conceal obsolete. So save the points you would spend on the warlock. The only exception to this would be if you know you are going to be playing on boards that don't have much or any terrain on them (in which case you should get to making some terrain to play with). Also, unlike almost every other unit character in the game, warlocks don't increase the leadership of the squad, so they really don't add anything significant to the guardians other than additional cost.

(b) Dire Avengers are great for the points and that it is a toss up between them and howling banshees in an assault vehicle.

Both units more or less require a wave serpent to be effective. Keep that in mind. The other thing to keep in mind is that avengers are a troop choice where as banshees are an elite choice. That will have a significant impact on how you build your army since you will have to take at least 2 troop choices and you can only take a max of 3 elite choices. All in all however, for the elite choice, harlequins out perform banshees at most tasks.

At 1500 points, I ask myself the following: Do I need a Farseer on jetbike, to keep the powers mobile and close to squads that need them (especially Fortune)?

If yes, I take a Farseer on jetbike with Fortune. This is usually to support a Mech or fast-moving army.

If no (if I'm using a foot army, basically), then I get Eldrad. This gives you _more_ value than two Farseers. Plus he can fight decently in CC, doesn't die to Power of the Warp flubs, and most importantly you get to reposition two of your units. With a foot force, this last is very important. At 210 points he seems like a lot, but the ability to cast Doom, Fortune AND Guide all in the same turn is invaluable. Heck, even casting Mind War twice to kill incoming powerfists, ICs or evasive heavy weapons can really save your bacon.

If you really, really feel like you need only one power, and can't spend the extra points, a single Farseer on foot is a decent buy.

So- maneuvering, go for the bike. On foot, go for Eldrad.

As for Warlocks, units of them on their own struggle to earn their points back. They die to horde attacks easily, even with rerolls. For a new player, they are a bit too finesse to be reliable. I've been playing Eldar for 8 years, and I don't really trust myself to use them well enough in a competitive environment. There are simply better things you can do in with the points for now. Plus, the new jetbike models will be out sometime relatively soon, and they may include a Warlock option- so save your modeling time and playing frustration, and work with other units for the moment. Just my $.02...

Personally i think taking Guide and Doom is a better idea than fortune. Smack him on a jetbike and give him Spirit Stones, then have him guide f.ex a falcon, and doom the squad it is shooting at.