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Given that game boards are supposed to be terrain heavy in 40K, and given the effects that pinning can have on the game (you don't move, you don't shoot, essentially you are out of the game for a turn)...

Are Rangers upgraded to Pathfinders worth it? I am planning a 1500 point list with two wave serpents with twin linked cannons and catapults, vectored engines and spirit stones with assault troops (probably both dire avenger), two walkers operating together with shuriken cannon and star cannon, two units of walking guardians with scatter laser, spiders, and an as yet to be determined additional really kill something elite unit.

I thought that Rangers with pathfinder upgrade might find lots of usage in such a list with the pinning ability PLUS the fact that they scout as well. Remember, my walkers can scout and have some serious firepower with two star cannon and two shurikens operating together.

Yes. They are totally worth it. Just make sure you have doom with your farseer. Dooming + Pathfinders = awesome combo.

Capt K

Beriothien wrote:two walkers operating together with shuriken cannon and star cannon

While it isn't your question, do yourself a favor and don't ever give war walkers shuriken cannons. The walkers are frail and their best defence is range. By giving them a weapon that forces them into the range of bolters and most other basic weaponery, you are just asking to get your walkers killed. Spend the couple of extra ponits and get them scatter lasers instead of shuriken cannons. Not only does it increase their fire power, it also increase their life span.

Now to the question at hand. I find that upgrading your scouts to pathfinders is generaly worth it. The fact that you double the number of ap 1 "super shots" that the squd puts out is quite valuable. In addition the unit goes from getting 3+ cover saves in most terrain to getting 2+ cover saves. That is worth it's weight in gold. 2+ saves are very very difficult to get though and it makes the unit not worth shooting at. As far as pinning goes, while it's powerful when it goes off, the fact that it relies on your opponent failing a leadership test makes it very unreliable. Leadership 8 units have a 72% chance of passing the test. It goes up to 83% for leadership 9 units. So while something will fail eventualy, the odds are 1 out of 4 or worse.

A word of warning. One big mistake I see all the time with these units is using the infiltration ability incorrectly. The advantage of infiltrate for these units is that it lets you set up last and see what the best spot for you will be. The ability to deploy outside of your deployment zone should almost never be used. These units are long ranged killers. They are no good in hand to hand and are vulnerable to short range fire (they die in droves to flamers). The last thing you want to do is be closer to the enemy than you need to be. So do yourself a favor and make sure that you don't start closer than about 30" or so from the enemy. Anything less than that is just asking to get yourself killed.

"assault troops, propably Dire Avengers..." Propably an oversight.^^

It provides a good subject though. In the troops section Avengers and Pathfinders have actually very similar roles and deserve a direct comparison.

Ill open a new thread to keep this on topic. Give it a look and you might find that Avengers would suit your force better.

@ Raider - no not an oversight. I don't see 18 inches assault rifles comparing to long range sniping. The Exarch is actually set up for assaulting, especially with shimmershield etc.

@ Phoenix and CaptKaruthors - thanks for tactical advice. I will seriously thing about walker changes.