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Hi all,

I've fallen in with the Warmachine group at my FLGS, and I've picked up the Khador battlegroup as the least-represented army at the shop. I'm looking to expand up to 500 points fairly quickly so that I can get some games against the local veterans. For financial reasons, I want to keep the battlegroup models in my army - Sorscha, Destroyer, Juggernaut. I'd also like to stay Prime-only for now. What would you guys recommend within my imposed limits? The more experienced guys seem to disparage Winter Guard, and have suggested I go with Iron Fang Pikemen and Widowmakers. I was thinking along these lines:

71 Sorscha
126 Destroyer
105 Juggernaut
22 Manhunter
95 Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader + 9)
53 Widowmakers (L+3)
23 Battle Mechaniks (L+5)
-----
495

Is there something outside of Prime that I really wouldn't want to be without? Is a third warjack silly with Sorscha having only 6 focus (as I assume is the case)?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

GreyLords Rock! Iron Fang Pikemen Unit Attachment is also pretty cool as well as Man O War Demo corps. Those are three commonly used units found outside of the main Prime Book.

I would not go with three Jacks personally and as far as winter guard go, they mainly work really well with UA's (unit attachments) and the Character solo (his name start with G, the rest of which is escaping me at the moment) to become more, shall we say Viable??

As for your list, it looks go with the imposed limits set by just using Prime. Widow makers and IFP's are awesome, so I'd say give it a go, then slowly move from this base.

Just my own humble opinion!
Thanks,
Chappy P!

I believe the IFP UA is 35 points, and the only way you're
getting that with your current list is to drop the mechaniks
and lowering the IFP unit. Or I guess you could drop the
Manhunter along with the Mechaniks.

But yeah, try that list out and figure out how you want to
expand your army before you look beyond Prime.

The Unit Attachment for IFP makes them really, really good.

I just started WM and Kador too and the $15 for the Faction Deck of cards for all the units is well worth the money spent to get all the unit rules without buying the books.

Personally, I'm pretty much doing the same thing you are (starting with the Battle Box and buying 500 points), my list is:

Skorsha
Destroyer
Juggernaut
4 Man-o-War Demo Corps
Widowmakers
Man-o-War Drakhun w/ Dismount Option

I'm picking out models I really like with a nod to effective combos too.

Your list is pretty sold as is, and I'd just reccomend dropping the Mekanics and going with the UA for the IFP as it will add some speed to your list.

you can get away with dropping the mechanics and an IFP or 2 to add in the UA without sacrificing the overall strength and ability of the unit...

That's why I built an army based around the IFP's!

A little off-topic, but I'd look to pick up a Kodiak warjack at some point and subbing that into the list for either the Destroyer or Juggernaught. Personally, I'm not a big fan of either of those jacks. They're not bad, but they both seem to fall into the trap of "but for only a few points more, I can get something a lot better" (which seems to be a common WM pitfall).

And I would agree with getting the IFP UA.

I thought that for ranged/dual purpose ability the Destroyer was one of the better Jacks out there for Khador.

In terms of a Melee Jack I can see the Kodiak or the Spriggan being really good in terms of being able to "get there" faster, but I haven't gotten to experiment with them yet.

Thanks for the pointers everyone! The general consensus seems to be that the UA for the Iron Fangs are very much worth having, so I've made some modifications:

71 Sorscha
126 Destroyer
105 Juggernaut
22 Manhunter
95 Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader + 8)
35 + IFP Unit Attachment
53 Widowmakers (L+3)
-----
498

I'm feeling pretty positive about this list - a nice simple array of units which should ease me into the game mechanics.

I've heard elsewhere that the Demo Corps are good (and I love the models), but I think they'll have to wait for 750. I'd be interested to hear some more of your opinions regarding 'jacks - it seems the Juggernaut doesn't get much respect.

@Voodoo Boyz: Faction Deck? I didn't even know such a product existed, but it sounds like it would be a great list-building tool. I'll have to ask about it down at the shop when I go to order my IFPs.

The Demo core seem to work best with Irusk and the butcher. The list you have will work fine with Sorscha and the pikeman wall in front of her until she wind rush feats is a good idea. Get you machines out in front for charges on her feat turn also. Not a bad list really.

I've found that dual purpose ranged/melee jacks just don't seem to do as well as single-purpose jacks. That's me. There's ways to shut down ranged attacks, there's not many to shut down melee attacks. Melee attacks are generally higher P+S. And, the melee jack will close and engage quicker, which in a tourney setting (what I generally play in), means it will do more.

The Destroyer isn't a bad jack, and for a melee/ranged jack, it is good. I just would rather have a melee jack that a dual jack.

With Sorscha the destroyer is ok as she can make it move faster. And he gets something to do on the way ie. bombard. You've gotta love that axe also when he gets into melee, it's powerful!

I agree that the kodiak is worth investigating. Check out it's stats. It works really well with Sorscha's knockdown spell, and it doesn't care about rough ground. Not so enthused about the juggy...

dietrich wrote:I've found that dual purpose ranged/melee jacks just don't seem to do as well as single-purpose jacks. That's me. There's ways to shut down ranged attacks, there's not many to shut down melee attacks. Melee attacks are generally higher P+S. And, the melee jack will close and engage quicker, which in a tourney setting (what I generally play in), means it will do more.

The Destroyer isn't a bad jack, and for a melee/ranged jack, it is good. I just would rather have a melee jack that a dual jack.

As a Cryx player, I hate dealing with a Destroyer. Boosting to hit and with the aiming bonus, it hits my Def 15 light jacks and Def 13/14 Helljacks with disturbing ease. Add in Vlad's Signs & Portents and it's just not fair. All-melee jacks are much easier to negate by evasion, slamming and other knockdown, and Crippling Grasp.

How do you feel about Field Mortars, Mannahnin? Are you able to manoeuver around them in a way the Destroyer's mobility makes it more of a threat?

I often field two mortars and a destroyer in my Irusk list. The three AOEs plus Inhospitable Ground put a lot of pressure on my opponent (does not apply if playing against Legion or other All-Terrain/pathfinder, horde-heavy fast list). Even when I don't hit anything all game, the mortars force my opponent to rethink his deployment strategy and how he moves up on me.

The destroyer is the exception to the rule that a (war)jack of all trades can't hang with the big boys (the Defender is the other one). It's tough enough, and deadly enough at range, and that axe does plenty of damage all it's own. It's no kodiak, Berzerker or Juggernaut, but it'll hold it's own in a scrap. I'll often run it marshaled by a kovnik or mekanik (yep, you read that right), especially if I see it doing more support duty than wading into combat, but it's a nice little bonus when my IFP have gotten stuck in and are starting to get piled on by the enemy.

The Destroyer does have an AoE which makes it a fair bit better than the Defender. I'd much rather see a Destoryer on the board than a Kodiak and Mortar Crew, which are about the same points.

I find it's a lot easier to negate ranged attacks than melee. Stealth, smoke, cover, high DEF all help negate ranged attacks. But as the trolls say, a good axe to the face always works!

Due to chronic product shortages at my FLGS (no IFPs, no Widowmakers) I've been forced into planning a 750 list before my first 500's done so I can purchase in-stock minis to paint up that will be useful to me sooner rather than later. I'd love some feedback on the list (especially on 'jack selection):

Sorscha
Destroyer
Kodiak

Man-o-War Kovnik
Manhunter
Eiryss

Iron Fang Pikemen (L+9) +UA
Man-o-War Demolition Corps (L+3)
Widowmakers
Greylord Ternion
Winter Guard Mortar Crew x2

----
745

Sorcha needs her focus for herself. She is most effective with the Behemoth. Support is widowmakers, man hunter, IFP+UA, and Eyriss.

However if you want to stay prime only, run one Destroyer, 2x units IFP, Man Hunter, Eyriss, Widowmakers.

I'd have the Kovnik marshal the destroyer, but it looks like a solid 750 pts. It's not uber-my-friends-won't play this list because every model is borken, but it's a powerful list. Eiryss, mortars and widowmakers make people cry.

I don't know that the manhunter adds a lot to the list. I'd look at some of the merc solos, maybe Gorman or the Piper, both of whom would add something 'different' to the list, where the manhunter just adds more melee punch, which you might not need.

Khador cannot use the Piper. Stick with the Manhunter or swap him out for Kell Bailoch. Gorman will put you 1 point over.

Overall, though, the list is solid. I agree with dietrich that the Kovnik should marshall the Destroyer. And you'll learn to love those Ternions. They always perform well for me.

Thanks for the feedback. What about The Butcher leading this list? My opponents at the FLGS are getting sick of Sorscha beating them real fast, so I've picked up a Butcher to field at 350 and thus have one in my bag, as it were.

Regarding the 500 point list, you'll need something to screen the Butcher. You can either try to shoehorn in some Greylords to cast Blizzard on the IFP, making a cloud wall, or you can simply swap the IFP (or a jack) for MoWs.

Orsus has a low CMD, so be careful with the Widowmakers. Don't deploy them near any models with Abomination or Terror. And watch out for incorporeal models and Vilmon. The Butcher has only one offensive spell, and it's expensive.

For the 750 list, a straight swap should work fine. The Butcher is cheaper than Sorscha, so you would be able to swap the Manhunter for Gorman if you were so inclined.