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Shadowbrand wrote:Yea so where the Saxons and a sizable Norwegian force.
*Edit* Whats the diffidence?
You do realize Normans aren't Vikings right? They are a bunch of French men who conquered parts of England and Italy.
No. Normans is a name that comes from North Men. The Normans aren't Vikings but they're from the same Scandanavian stock. They weren't Franks, though they conquer the northern coast of France that bears their name. They also ruled Sicily for a few decades.
Pirate women nor Viking women would look like that.
Stop going off Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean, mind you she only looked good because she was royalty, and to top it off, how can you look good after spending over a week on a ship, with no form of bathing items and essentials?
Same for vikings, the women shouldn't matter.
Also...
Ranged:
Pirates: Cannons (Require loading, ammo, powder and crew.) Guns (Highly Inaccurate at their time, and I highly doubt, a bead of led in that day could pierce most chain mail or if the viking couldn't take it.)
Vikings: Arrows (Fast, require skill, can be equipped to become flaming arrows.) Throwing axes (Not likely, but someone might hit.) Spears (Still used today, just like arrows.)
Ships:
Pirates: Ships were bigger, and potentially faster, but they lacked the quality to be able to board on to enemies within moments. They also require a highly active crew to maintain movement.
Vikings: Ships varied in sizes, were man powered, could change course on a dime, were designed for boarding enemies.
Close Combat:
Pirates: Guns & Swords (Brawled not really all to skilled.)
Vikings: Shields, armor, axes, swords, maces, etc. (Lived to fight.)
The_Savior wrote:Pirate women nor Viking women would look like that.
Stop going off Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean, mind you she only looked good because she was royalty, and to top it off, how can you look good after spending over a week on a ship, with no form of bathing items and essentials?
Same for vikings, the women shouldn't matter.
Or are they the only thing that matters?
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The_Savior wrote:Pirate women nor Viking women would look like that.
Stop going off Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean, mind you she only looked good because she was royalty, and to top it off, how can you look good after spending over a week on a ship, with no form of bathing items and essentials?
Same for vikings, the women shouldn't matter.
Hey I judge all v's threads via the important rules of the Internet, well the only one that counts.
One quick look around told me all I needed to now.. Pirates win.
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Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
Office of Naval Intelligence Research discovers 3 out of 4 sailors make up 75% of U.S. Navy.
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The_Savior wrote:Pirate women nor Viking women would look like that.
Stop going off Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean, mind you she only looked good because she was royalty, and to top it off, how can you look good after spending over a week on a ship, with no form of bathing items and essentials?
Same for vikings, the women shouldn't matter.
Whoa now! Its on my friend. No one insults Disney!
Pirates: Cannons (Require loading, ammo, powder and crew.)
Extreme range and destructive force that can go through and entire row of men. Vikings got arrows...
Guns (Highly Inaccurate at their time, and I highly doubt, a bead of led in that day could pierce most chain mail or if the viking couldn't take it.)
What? Early fire arms could pierce full body plate armor. Since pirates were a little down the line in terms of the technology, they're not going to have a problem with chain mail. At the range of a boarding event it doesn't really matter. It's hard to miss a target a few feet in front of you. At range, cannons were far more accurate than some people give them credit for.
Vikings: Arrows (Fast, require skill, can be equipped to become flaming arrows.) Throwing axes (Not likely, but someone might hit.) Spears (Still used today, just like arrows.)
I do not believe Vikings were well known for throwing axes (they certainly are in popular mythology but that's not really historically sound to my knowledge). The types of axes the vikings used were far to heavy for throwing. They didn't throw their spears. Spears were a bulk weapon of most forces at the time because they were cheap and poor farmers could afford to have one. And Bows requiring skill is a pretty big disadvantage. Guns are pretty much point and shoot. Bows require extensive knowledge to be used effectively.
Pirates: Ships were bigger, and potentially faster, but they lacked the quality to be able to board on to enemies within moments. They also require a highly active crew to maintain movement.
What? Pirates boarded ships all the time. it was kind of a requirement if you wanted to steal anything from the ship that you board it rather than destroy it. Once you've boarded you don't need to maintain movement anymore. Your men are aboard and seizing control.
Vikings: Ships varied in sizes, were man powered, could change course on a dime, were designed for boarding enemies.
No they weren't.
Pirates: Guns & Swords (Brawled not really all to skilled.)
Guns. And to criticize a pirate for skill in battle is a little silly. Most Vikings were farmers. Most pirates were serial murders. They were well known for warriors but the bulk of a viking force would be what any other force at the time was made of. Young men, mostly farmers, inexperienced in battle.
Vikings: Shields, armor, axes, swords, maces, etc. (Lived to fight.)
For someone mocking the glorious lord Disney, you seem to be getting a lot of your information from movies... The idea of vikings as life time warriors is a myth. Their culture was warlike but not to the degree that many people seem to think it was. They didn't live to fight. They just ended up doing it a lot. Pirates would win this fight simply because of technological advantages. Their ships were larger. They were faster. They had guns. Many pirates were privateers and professional soldiers. Vikings were a typical feudal society, only well known for the age of fear they invoked in Western Europe for about a few centuries.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/09/27 19:01:24
Now now These are Buccaneer women.. Pirates play Baseball
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/27 18:51:38
Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
Office of Naval Intelligence Research discovers 3 out of 4 sailors make up 75% of U.S. Navy.
"Madness is like gravity... All you need is a little push."
The_Savior wrote:Pirate women nor Viking women would look like that.
Stop going off Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean, mind you she only looked good because she was royalty, and to top it off, how can you look good after spending over a week on a ship, with no form of bathing items and essentials?
Same for vikings, the women shouldn't matter.
Whoa now! Its on my friend. No one insults Disney!
Pirates: Cannons (Require loading, ammo, powder and crew.)
Extreme range and destructive force that can go through and entire row of men. Vikings got arrows...
Guns (Highly Inaccurate at their time, and I highly doubt, a bead of led in that day could pierce most chain mail or if the viking couldn't take it.)
What? Early fire arms could pierce full body plate armor. Since pirates were a little down the line in terms of the technology, they're not going to have a problem with chain mail. At the range of a boarding event it doesn't really matter. It's hard to miss a target a few feet in front of you. At range, cannons were far more accurate than some people give them credit for.
Vikings: Arrows (Fast, require skill, can be equipped to become flaming arrows.) Throwing axes (Not likely, but someone might hit.) Spears (Still used today, just like arrows.)
I do not believe Vikings were well known for throwing axes (they certainly are in popular mythology but that's not really historically sound to my knowledge). The types of axes the vikings used were far to heavy for throwing. They didn't throw their spears. Spears were a bulk weapon of most forces at the time because they were cheap and poor farmers could afford to have one. And Bows requiring skill is a pretty big disadvantage. Guns are pretty much point and shoot. Bows require extensive knowledge to be used effectively.
Pirates: Ships were bigger, and potentially faster, but they lacked the quality to be able to board on to enemies within moments. They also require a highly active crew to maintain movement.
What? Pirates boarded ships all the time. it was kind of a requirement if you wanted to steal anything from the ship that you board it rather than destroy it. Once you've boarded you don't need to maintain movement anymore. Your men are aboard and seizing control.
Vikings: Ships varied in sizes, were man powered, could change course on a dime, were designed for boarding enemies.
No they weren't.
Pirates: Guns & Swords (Brawled not really all to skilled.)
Guns. And to criticize a pirate for skill in battle is a little silly. Most Vikings were farmers. Most pirates were serial murders. They were well known for warriors but the bulk of a viking force would be what any other force at the time was made of. Young men, mostly farmers, inexperienced in battle.
Vikings: Shields, armor, axes, swords, maces, etc. (Lived to fight.)
For someone mocking the glorious lord Disney, you seem to be getting a lot of your information from movies... The idea of vikings as life time warriors is a myth. Their culture was warlike but not to the degree that many people seem to think it was. They didn't live to fight. They just ended up doing it a lot. Pirates would win this fight simply because of technological advantages. Their ships were larger. They were faster. They had guns. Many pirates were privateers and professional soldiers. Vikings were a typical feudal society, only well known for the age of fear they invoked in Western Europe for about a few centuries.
Do you have proof?
Support your knowledge with sources.
Also, you sound like a pirate fan boy, it must be sad to idolize Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom, thinking about how they plunder your chocolate canal.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/09/27 19:10:44
Do you? Movies don't count. I'd stay away from Spike TV too. The History channel isn't as reliable as it used to be sadly.
Support your knowledge with sources.
I've said it before I'll say it again. I won't play the citation game. These are your claims that are being refuted. Back them up yourself. I may very well be wrong as I'm no expert on vikings but I'm pretty damn confident on most of the points. The fact you think a fire arm couldn't pierce chain mail is pretty dubious. They went to full plate armor in part because arrows could break chain mail. A gun carries more power than an arrow. Even an early one. Even sadder is that you have gotten the idea pirates were experts at boarding ships and that somehow Vikings, who are not known to have ever engaged in naval warfare on a significant scale, somehow were.
Also, you sound like a pirate fan boy, it must be sad to idolize Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom, thinking about how they plunder your chocolate canal.
First movie was entertaining. Other two were pretty stupid with a really nonsensical plot. Most of Disney good stuff comes from Pixar these days. But still. You sir insult Disney! Maker of Lion King and bringer of Aladdin!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/27 19:23:06
Do you? Movies don't count. I'd stay away from Spike TV too. The History channel isn't as reliable as it used to be sadly.
Support your knowledge with sources.
I've said it before I'll say it again. I won't play the citation game. These are your claims that are being refuted. Back them up yourself. I may very well be wrong as I'm no expert on vikings but I'm pretty damn confident on most of the points. The fact you think a fire arm couldn't pierce chain mail is pretty dubious. They went to full plate armor in part because arrows could break chain mail. A gun carries more power than an arrow. Even an early one.
Also, you sound like a pirate fan boy, it must be sad to idolize Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom, thinking about how they plunder your chocolate canal.
First movie was entertaining. Other two were pretty stupid with a really nonsensical plot. Most of Disney good stuff comes from Pixar these days. But still. You sir insult Disney! Maker of Lion King and bringer of Aladdin!
And insults? Classy.
I'll agree with you on the sources point.
Disney... Live Action can die. Animated is Golden.
Now I'm not going to lie I am a Buccaneers fan so go Bucs.
And what was said about pirates boarding ships all the time isn't that accurate. Most Pirates relied on frightening their prey into submition with a warning shot and hoping that they would surrender as boarding engagments would be very costly in lives.
Vikings on the other hand relied on close combat as many of you have said they didn't have fire arms. They had a nifty thing called a shield wall which allowed them to fight and beat even the Romans. Now talking about fire arms the guns used by pirates where not only innacurate they where also unreliable and prone to missfire. Someone said they could pearce armor? WRONG, blunderbusses could but that's a point blank weapon. The smaller hand held cannon wasen't numerous enough for every pirate to carry.
Also there is a question of numbers, viking forces wern't small raiding parties they where actual armies and I doubt that pirates could fire, reload and fire again fast enough to kill every viking. And yes Pirates where ex navy but unlike what was said earlier they where not all officers. And there is a differance between cutlasses, boarding axes and NO armor vs chainmail, spears, lang axes and great swords.
Now yes there is a the differance between naval class vessels of the Pirates and Vikings and pirates did have cannons but they where used against other vessels of the same size or larger. Yes long ships where smaller which gave them a smaller profile and makes them harder to hit. That's also assuming that the pirates are on their ships 24/7, when at port they didn't have their cannons with them as it would be too much work to move the cannons. And as was said before vikings excelled at swift raids landing on an island and moving into a village. The perfect time to destroy those rum soaked pirates who don't know when to put away their grog (which they carried on their ships with them) while the Vikings new when to put down the drinking horn which by the way was the real horn the vikings had. No antler hats
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote: Now talking about fire arms the guns used by pirates where not only innacurate they where also unreliable and prone to missfire. Someone said they could pearce armor? WRONG, blunderbusses could but that's a point blank weapon. The smaller hand held cannon wasen't numerous enough for every pirate to carry.
I suppose that could be true of plate armor, but vikings weren't really packing plate armor. They were packing chain mail if they could afford it. Pistols could break that, and pistols were a fairly common weapon among pirates as far as I know.
Also there is a question of numbers, viking forces wern't small raiding parties they where actual armies
That depends on what we're talking about. Vikings going out and conquering, or viking raiding parties. I thought that we were assuming that when viking was said we were referring to raiding parties rather than armies.
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