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Kilkrazy wrote:It only applies to tanks, whether or not it is movement, so it cannot be taken as a rule for non-tanks.

I had always read that as a clarification that allows turning to occur prior to moving since it is not allowed during, not as a specific allowance given only to tanks. Interesting take, though.

/shrug

... If we're going down the root of you must be moving before turning ... moving 0" is still moving ...

The argument for abstract movement is that once you've started moving, you've already mesured how far away you can end up. So when you turn, you can't start measuring from the front of the vehicle again. So whether you'd actually covered any distance doesn't matter, it's the fact that your movement has started (or ended, if we're talking at the end of the move), and that implies that you've already laid down your tape as in the diagram.

I think of it kinda like this: determine what speed you're moving, and how far that means. Let's say 12" for cruising speed. Then measure 12" from the hull in every direction. The model must end up entirely within this border at the end of the move. If there are obstacles, it gets messier, but you get the idea.

ElCheezus wrote:The argument for abstract movement is that once you've started moving, you've already mesured how far away you can end up. So when you turn, you can't start measuring from the front of the vehicle again. So whether you'd actually covered any distance doesn't matter, it's the fact that your movement has started (or ended, if we're talking at the end of the move), and that implies that you've already laid down your tape as in the diagram.

I think of it kinda like this: determine what speed you're moving, and how far that means. Let's say 12" for cruising speed. Then measure 12" from the hull in every direction. The model must end up entirely within this border at the end of the move. If there are obstacles, it gets messier, but you get the idea.

except you can't move sideways so you have to pivot first.... come on lets face facts. You must turn the vehicle to face the way you want it to go then you measure how far. If you need to pivot mid move you keep track of the little distances and make sure you don't move to far.


Yes you can gain some extra inches at the start of the game by being side on ... but then its only a couple of inches ... from then on its even no matter what you do.

Are we imlpying that any vehicle(tracked or otherwise) can move sideways? That is the only way I can see gaining any movement at all with this trick?

Its rather unfortunate that there is no rule requiring a model to move the direction it is facing.

According to the rules, there is nothing preventing a treaded vehicle from moving sideways.

Or a skimmer moving in a direction its propulsion does not intuitively account for.

I would never play this way, and would auto-lower the sports of anyone who did. Rhinos don't hop sideways, although they can move forwards and pivot at the start/end/mid.

Tri wrote:

ElCheezus wrote:The argument for abstract movement is that once you've started moving, you've already mesured how far away you can end up. So when you turn, you can't start measuring from the front of the vehicle again. So whether you'd actually covered any distance doesn't matter, it's the fact that your movement has started (or ended, if we're talking at the end of the move), and that implies that you've already laid down your tape as in the diagram.

I think of it kinda like this: determine what speed you're moving, and how far that means. Let's say 12" for cruising speed. Then measure 12" from the hull in every direction. The model must end up entirely within this border at the end of the move. If there are obstacles, it gets messier, but you get the idea.

except you can't move sideways so you have to pivot first.... come on lets face facts. You must turn the vehicle to face the way you want it to go then you measure how far. If you need to pivot mid move you keep track of the little distances and make sure you don't move to far.


Yes you can gain some extra inches at the start of the game by being side on ... but then its only a couple of inches ... from then on its even no matter what you do.

Right, but if pivoting is part of movement ("pivot as you move" has been quoted enough by now, I think), shouldn't you measure before you start moving? If you're saying you don't have to measure your max distance before you pick up the model to move it, then how do we determine how far you can move?

Don't the vehicle movement rules state "a vechile can move a combination of Forward and Backward, as long as it does not go over its maximum allowed movement?

Anubis_513 wrote:Are we imlpying that any vehicle(tracked or otherwise) can move sideways? That is the only way I can see gaining any movement at all with this trick?

Whether you move sideways and then pivot forwards at the end, or start sideways, pivot forwards and then move, you wind up in the same position.

ElCheezus wrote: If you're saying you don't have to measure your max distance before you pick up the model to move it, then how do we determine how far you can move?

We've already covered that. You measure as you move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anubis_513 wrote:Don't the vehicle movement rules state "a vechile can move a combination of Forward and Backward, as long as it does not go over its maximum allowed movement?

They do, yes. Which, as I've explained twice now, just means that they can combine forwards and backwards movement. The vehicle movement rules should, but don't make any suggestion that vehicles have to move forwards or backwards. It's just a commonly held assumption.

ElCheezus wrote:Right, but if pivoting is part of movement ("pivot as you move" has been quoted enough by now, I think), shouldn't you measure before you start moving? If you're saying you don't have to measure your max distance before you pick up the model to move it, then how do we determine how far you can move?

... tape measure ... extend to distance you want to move it ... place model at that point ... pivot ... and repeat.

I often extend my tape measure to the maximum I'm going to move and then let it in as I make that movement.

But if you really want to pre-measure you could go from the centre of the vehicle to the end point.

Tri wrote:

ElCheezus wrote:Right, but if pivoting is part of movement ("pivot as you move" has been quoted enough by now, I think), shouldn't you measure before you start moving? If you're saying you don't have to measure your max distance before you pick up the model to move it, then how do we determine how far you can move?

... tape measure ... extend to distance you want to move it ... place model at that point ... pivot ... and repeat.

I often extend my tape measure to the maximum I'm going to move and then let it in as I make that movement.

But if you really want to pre-measure you could go from the centre of the vehicle to the end point.

1) If pivoting is part of movement, you're ending your move past the end of the tape measure.

2) You can't measure from the cetner fo the vehicle.

Anubis_513 wrote:
Are we imlpying that any vehicle(tracked or otherwise) can move sideways? That is the only way I can see gaining any movement at all with this trick?

Whether you move sideways and then pivot forwards at the end, or start sideways, pivot forwards and then move, you wind up in the same position.

Ok, that I can agree with, but how does this work if you are moving on from reserves?

And back around we go.

I think this has gone as far as is productive at this time. Since we're just going around in circles, I think it can take a rest before we all get dizzy.