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Relapse wrote:I agree tonot arguing against straw man nonsense.

So then, you disagree with your assertion that we can't deny businesses for political reasons?

Because we certainly do it.

Nitros14 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice."

That's the kind of thinking that justifies murdering planned parenthood doctors and politicians you disagree with. Scary.

No. It means I protect the full penumbra of the Bill of Rights with vigor. its a shame you don't understand the difference. Scary.

Melissia wrote:

Relapse wrote:I agree tonot arguing against straw man nonsense.

So then, you disagree with your assertion that we can't deny businesses for political reasons?

Because we certainly do it.

I take from your reply that you support execution or internment camps for dissenters .

Frazzled wrote:

Nitros14 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice."

That's the kind of thinking that justifies murdering planned parenthood doctors and politicians you disagree with. Scary.

No. It means I protect the full penumbra of the Bill of Rights with vigor. its a shame you don't understand the difference. Scary.

I'm not sure you understand what "Extremism" is then. If by "protect with vigor" you just mean peacefully arguing your position then I have no problem with it. That doesn't sound like extremism to me though. Extremism generally involves killing people you disagree with.

Relapse wrote:I take from your reply that you support execution or internment camps for dissenters .

I know you're trying to sarcastically make a point, but it doesn't seem like a very good one. Execution and internment camps don't really have much to do with peacefully refusing to do business with someone.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/saudi-arabia-bans-gays-tom-boys-schools_n_1428907.html

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SA

I suggest you all stop buying gasoline as well. Which is to say, at what point exactly do idealism and reality intersect?

But but MR.. we like ignoring where everything we actually use comes from so that we can keep using it and still feel good about ourselves...

Don't take that from us.

Monster Rain wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/saudi-arabia-bans-gays-tom-boys-schools_n_1428907.html

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SA

I suggest you all stop buying gasoline as well.

Saudi Arabia provides less than 20% of the United States' oil. The largest exporter to the U.S. by far is Canada.

Although it'd be pretty much impossible to stop using oil products. Almost literally anything you buy or consume used oil at some point in its production. The whole system would need an overhaul to phase out oil.

What have we gotten into.....

Nitros14 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/saudi-arabia-bans-gays-tom-boys-schools_n_1428907.html

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SA

I suggest you all stop buying gasoline as well.

Saudi Arabia provides less than 20% of the United States' oil.

Ah yes. Rationalize! Though you don't seem to have your numbers correct...

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SA

It would seem that combining Saudi Arabia and Nigeria's contributions, the largest percentage of the USA's oil consumption is supplied by places that aren't nice to LGBT folks.

Monster Rain wrote:

Nitros14 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/saudi-arabia-bans-gays-tom-boys-schools_n_1428907.html

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SA

I suggest you all stop buying gasoline as well.

Saudi Arabia provides less than 20% of the United States' oil.

Ah yes. Rationalize!

See, oil is a necessary evil at the moment. If we stopped now, society wouldn't function anymore. We need to phase it out gradually.

Chic-Fil-A is not a necessary evil. If we stop buying chicken there.... well, society still functions.

ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

I like this one better

Monster Rain wrote:Though you don't seem to have your numbers correct...

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SA

It would seem that combining Saudi Arabia and Nigeria's contributions, the majority of the USA's oil consumption is supplied by places that aren't nice to LGBT folks.

From your link

"In 2009, Saudi Arabia exported an average of 1 million bbl/d of petroleum liquids to the United States, (down from (1.5 million bbl/d in 2008) accounting for 9 percent of total U.S. petroleum imports."

Monster Rain wrote:

Nitros14 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/saudi-arabia-bans-gays-tom-boys-schools_n_1428907.html

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SA

I suggest you all stop buying gasoline as well.

Saudi Arabia provides less than 20% of the United States' oil.

Ah yes. Rationalize! Though you don't seem to have your numbers correct...

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SA

It would seem that combining Saudi Arabia and Nigeria's contributions, the majority of the USA's oil consumption is supplied by places that aren't nice to LGBT folks.

Killing people is bad, cars kill thousands every year. Lets stop buying cars. Thanks MR, another great contribution.

ShumaGorath wrote:Killing people is bad, cars kill thousands every year. Lets stop buying cars.

Why not?

ShumaGorath wrote:Thanks MR, another great contribution.

Nitros14 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Though you don't seem to have your numbers correct...

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SA

It would seem that combining Saudi Arabia and Nigeria's contributions, the majority of the USA's oil consumption is supplied by places that aren't nice to LGBT folks.

From your link

"In 2009, Saudi Arabia exported an average of 1 million bbl/d of petroleum liquids to the United States, (down from (1.5 million bbl/d in 2008) accounting for 9 percent of total U.S. petroleum imports."

I've cited a few different sources. The point is unchanged.

•Heart disease: 599,413 a year


We need to replace the heart

Jihadin wrote:•Heart disease: 599,413 a year


We need to replace the heart

You could stop buying things that contribute to an increase in heart disease. Either way...

MrDwhitey wrote:But but MR.. we like ignoring where everything we actually use comes from so that we can keep using it and still feel good about ourselves...

Don't take that from us.

Seems to sum it up.

At a certain point, for anyone, the moment living up to one's own ideals becomes too inconvenient we rationalize why it's okay for us to compromise.

Monster Rain wrote:The point is unchanged.

The point is still silly Clearly we should do nothing to advance our ideals ever because at some point we're willing to sacrifice them to function normally in society.

Me personally not buying oil isn't going to do anything to Saudi Arabia. Even if everyone in America didn't buy oil Saudi Arabia could just increase exports to China without a problem.

Boston and Chicago refusing to do business with an American food chain might actually do something to said food chain.

Not that you actually care because you're just trolling the silly off-topic boards but you know.

You could stop buying things that contribute to an increase in heart disease. Either way...

53% of heart disease is due to inactivity

Nitros14 wrote:Boston and Chicago refusing to do business with an American food chain might actually do something to said food chain..

But they aren't, though. Didn't Menino say that in his clarification?

Nitros14 wrote:Not that you actually care because you're just trolling the silly off-topic boards but you know.

"Trolling" implying that I don't mean every word I've said?

You couldn't be more wrong. Though throwing that word out at the first sign of disagreement doesn't really speak well of someone's capability for reasonable discussion.

Jihadin wrote:

You could stop buying things that contribute to an increase in heart disease. Either way...

53% of heart disease is due to inactivity

Citation needed. But not really, because no one buys "inactivity."

What about all the gay people that have jobs and earn money thanks to CFA? The company actually has a stronger anti-discrimination policy than many other fast-food places, and between the company itself and all the other companies that have jobs because of them (construction companies, suppliers, farmers, even coca-cola supplying the drinks) there are many gay folks employed because of them.

You can protest the company all you want and boycott them into oblivion. But they will also cause many gay folks to loose their jobs and support as well.

If they aren't that's their business really, I was speaking theoretically.

If you do mean what you've said then am I to understand that either you're very holier-than-thou or your point is that no one should ever try to advance their ideals because at some point they're willing to sacrifice them to function normally in society? That's just part of living. You can't have a life of absolute ideals you have to compromise. It still doesn't mean that discriminating against someone because of who they sleep with in private is right.

What about all the gay people that have jobs and earn money thanks to CFA? The company actually has a stronger anti-discrimination policy than many other fast-food places, and between the company itself and all the other companies that have jobs because of them (construction companies, suppliers, farmers, even coca-cola supplying the drinks) there are many gay folks employed because of them.

You can protest the company all you want and boycott them into oblivion. But they will also cause many gay folks to loose their jobs and support as well.

What about all those innocent Germans working in Nazi Germany? When the United States and the Soviet Union toppled Hitler it caused millions of innocent people to lose their homes. jobs and families as well.

Note that's an exaggeration, CFA are not Nazis. Still a silly argument. If CFA doesn't sate the demand that exists then another company will and that company will need to hire people to work those same jobs.

Nitros14 wrote:It still doesn't mean that discriminating against someone because of who they sleep with in private is right.

At no point have I said that Truett Cathy's beliefs are "right".

Or wrong. In the end it really doesn't matter.

Nitros14 wrote:If you do mean what you've said then am I to understand that either you're very holier-than-thou or your point is that no one should ever try to advance their ideals because at some point they're willing to sacrifice them to function normally in society?

I'm not very holier-than-thou at all, and you can feel free to try to advance your ideals all you want. I just think it's interesting that no matter how strongly held someone's belief in any political/social/moral cause they will almost always find some way to rationalize going the opposite direction due to convenience.

Diet, physical inactivity, and obesity are three major causes of cardiovascular disease. A diet high in saturated fats, trans fats, and cholesterol promote the onset of atherosclerosis. In addition, a diet high in sodium raises the blood pressure significantly.

Physical inactivity leads to high blood pressure, high levels of fatty acids which promote hardening of the arteries, low levels of HDL (good) cholesterol, and diabetes. In addition, physical inactivity leads to another of the causes of cardiovascular, obesity. Obesity is excess body fat and is linked to higher levels of LDL (bad) cholesterol and lower levels of HDL cholesterol. Obesity also triggers the onset of high blood pressure and diabetes.

Monster Rain wrote:

Nitros14 wrote:It still doesn't mean that discriminating against someone because of who they sleep with in private is right.

At no point have I said that Truett Cathy's beliefs are "right".

Or wrong. In the end it really doesn't matter.

How very melodramatic.

It won't matter to us when we're dead no.

It matters to us a lot when we're alive though. I very much have a vested interest in seeing that baseless discrimination isn't part of a society I live in.

Nitros14 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Nitros14 wrote:It still doesn't mean that discriminating against someone because of who they sleep with in private is right.

At no point have I said that Truett Cathy's beliefs are "right".

Or wrong. In the end it really doesn't matter.

How very melodramatic.

I meant "in the end" more in the sense of "This will likely gain CFA as much business as they lose from a boycott, and the world will keep spinning."

Nitros14 wrote:It won't matter to us when we're dead no.

It matters to us a lot when we're alive though. I very much have a vested interest in seeing that baseless discrimination isn't part of a society I live in.

As do I, but I'm not going to pretend that I'm forwarding a cause by not buying chicken when I support much more egregious human rights violations on a daily basis with my other purchases, that's all.

Jihadin wrote:Diet, physical inactivity, and obesity are three major causes of cardiovascular disease. A diet high in saturated fats, trans fats, and cholesterol promote the onset of atherosclerosis. In addition, a diet high in sodium raises the blood pressure significantly.

Physical inactivity leads to high blood pressure, high levels of fatty acids which promote hardening of the arteries, low levels of HDL (good) cholesterol, and diabetes. In addition, physical inactivity leads to another of the causes of cardiovascular, obesity. Obesity is excess body fat and is linked to higher levels of LDL (bad) cholesterol and lower levels of HDL cholesterol. Obesity also triggers the onset of high blood pressure and diabetes.

Then what happened?

Monster Rain wrote:
As do I, but I'm not going to pretend that I'm forwarding a cause by not buying chicken when I support much more egregious human rights violations on a daily basis with my other purchases, that's all.

To be honest neither am I. Like I said in theory a major city in North America rejecting a chain on account of discrimination brings public attention to the issue

My personal buying decisions don't really do anything. Especially not my buying decisions in regards to products produced halfway around the world in entirely different cultures that aren't going to change as a result of what North America decides to buy or not.

I'm sure you mean to imply I'm being a hypocrite here but please don't assume I'm some sort of blind idealist unaware of reality.

I'm also sure the world will keep on spinning but I will point out that due to public attention many views have been socially unacceptable over time. Slavery for example was once accepted in the public mind and through public attention eventually became reprehensible for the majority of North Americans.

Nitros14 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/saudi-arabia-bans-gays-tom-boys-schools_n_1428907.html

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SA

I suggest you all stop buying gasoline as well.

Saudi Arabia provides less than 20% of the United States' oil. The largest exporter to the U.S. by far is Canada.

Although it'd be pretty much impossible to stop using oil products. Almost literally anything you buy or consume used oil at some point in its production. The whole system would need an overhaul to phase out oil.

I don't know if you or any of your friends use drugs or not, but if you do, you are supporting murders by the thousands in Mexico.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

d-usa wrote:What about all the gay people that have jobs and earn money thanks to CFA? The company actually has a stronger anti-discrimination policy than many other fast-food places, and between the company itself and all the other companies that have jobs because of them (construction companies, suppliers, farmers, even coca-cola supplying the drinks) there are many gay folks employed because of them.

You can protest the company all you want and boycott them into oblivion. But they will also cause many gay folks to loose their jobs and support as well.

Excellent point.

Relapse wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Relapse wrote:I agree tonot arguing against straw man nonsense.

So then, you disagree with your assertion that we can't deny businesses for political reasons?

Because we certainly do it.

I take from your reply that you support execution or internment camps for dissenters .

Dodging the subject are we?

How sad.

Nitros14 wrote:I'm also sure the world will keep on spinning but I will point out that due to public attention many views have been socially unacceptable over time. Slavery for example was once accepted in the public mind and through public attention eventually became reprehensible for the majority of North Americans.

I think we agree that the viewpoint held by the owner of CFA is on the wrong side of history, and in time the idea of opposition to Same Sex Marriage will be held in the same regard as the earth being the center of the universe.

#Common Ground, #End On a Friendly-ish Note

Monster Rain wrote:

Nitros14 wrote:I'm also sure the world will keep on spinning but I will point out that due to public attention many views have been socially unacceptable over time. Slavery for example was once accepted in the public mind and through public attention eventually became reprehensible for the majority of North Americans.

I think we agree that the viewpoint held by the owner of CFA is on the wrong side of history, and in time the idea of opposition to Same Sex Marriage will be held in the same regard as the earth being the center of the universe.

#Common Ground, #End On a Friendly-ish Note

Let's all be wonderful friends