AWB takes a hit

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**azazel the cat**

d-usa wrote:Not really AWB related, but I figured we don't need another dedicated gun thread so I'm just throwing it here.

Woman killed by 4-year-old in Tennessee cookout

(CNN) -- A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday.

No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said. The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning.

The couple were hosting family and friends at their house when Daniel Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to check out some of Fanning's guns, Helm said. Josephine Fanning and the boy walked into the room later, and at some point the boy picked the loaded pistol up off the bed.

Helm said she wasn't sure of the relationship between the boy and the Fannings. The TBI, which investigates incidents involving law enforcement officers, is still conducting its probe, and no charges have been filed.

The gun involved was Fanning's personal weapon, not his service pistol, she said.

People just need to quit being stupid with guns, that guy was a cop for feths sake and he left a loaded gun laying where his child could reach it?

If we cannot manage responsible ownership then we will see more attempts at regulating ownership in general.

Sometimes gun owners are our own worst enemies.

The report states that they are not certain yet what the relationship the child had with the deputy & his wife. That implies the kid wasn't there, and could have been anyone's kid.

If only the wife had been armed, she might've been able to defend herself and might still be alive today.

**Grey Templar**

What an idiot

Stupidity is its own Reward I guess.

Things like this can't be regulated away. I think we can say that such a horrible event is reminding enough that guns are dangerous and its the responsibility of the owner to make sure there is a safe environment. And more education about guns is needed for the general populace, of all ages. The possibility of an event like this should cause all gun owners to remind themselves about the care that should be taken.

Sad it turned out that way.

**d-usa**

azazel the cat wrote:
d-usa wrote:Not really AWB related, but I figured we don't need another dedicated gun thread so I'm just throwing it here.

Woman killed by 4-year-old in Tennessee cookout

(CNN) -- A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday.

No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said. The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning.

The couple were hosting family and friends at their house when Daniel Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to check out some of Fanning's guns, Helm said. Josephine Fanning and the boy walked into the room later, and at some point the boy picked the loaded pistol up off the bed.

Helm said she wasn't sure of the relationship between the boy and the Fannings. The TBI, which investigates incidents involving law enforcement officers, is still conducting its probe, and no charges have been filed.

The gun involved was Fanning's personal weapon, not his service pistol, she said.

People just need to quit being stupid with guns, that guy was a cop for feths sake and he left a loaded gun laying where his child could reach it?

If we cannot manage responsible ownership then we will see more attempts at regulating ownership in general.

Sometimes gun owners are our own worst enemies.

The report states that they are not certain yet what the relationship the child had with the deputy & his wife. That implies the kid wasn't there, and could have been anyone's kid.
.

They were hosting a party, so he knew other people and their kids were there.

I don't have any kids yet, so I don't always keep my weapons under lock and key, but whenever we have company with kids over all the guns get locked away.

Grey Templar wrote:
Things like this can't be regulated away. I think we can say that such a horrible event is reminding enough that guns are dangerous and its the responsibility of the owner to make sure there is a safe environment. And more education about guns is needed for the general populace, of all ages. The possibility of an event like this should cause all gun owners to remind themselves about the care that should be taken.

But people will look at stuff like this and see it as proof that you cannot safely own firearms and that they should all be gotten rid off. But that also means that if we don't want people to think that folks who own guns are stupid, then we need to quit being stupid with our guns (not saying that you are, just speaking in general). Unfortionately somebody had to pay a pretty big price for that lesson.

I might be in favor of some gun legislation, but you cannot legislate responsibility and common sense.

**Grey Templar**

Yeah, this doesn't make gun owners look good at all. Of course thats the nature of most things, you never hear when things go perfectly. Only when they go bad.

**d-usa**

Very true.

**azazel the cat**

Grey Templar wrote:What an idiot

Stupidity is its own Reward I guess.

Things like this can't be regulated away. I think we can say that such a horrible event is reminding enough that guns are dangerous and its the responsibility of the owner to make sure there is a safe environment. And more education about guns is needed for the general populace, of all ages. The possibility of an event like this should cause all gun owners to remind themselves about the care that should be taken.

Sad it turned out that way.

Things like this can most definitely be regulated away: simply make safety training a mandatory requirement for anyone to possess a firearm.

@D-USA: thank you for ripping the set-up of my terrible joke out of its context like a still-beating heart. If you intention was for the punchline to twitch and fall down in the background dramatically, then you definitely accomplished that.

**Seaward**

azazel the cat wrote:
Things like this can most definitely be regulated away: simply make safety training a mandatory requirement for anyone to possess a firearm.

Do you think this cop didn't undergo safety training?

**azazel the cat**

Seaward wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:
Things like this can most definitely be regulated away: simply make safety training a mandatory requirement for anyone to possess a firearm.

Do you think this cop didn't undergo safety training?

Can't say. He's a sheriff's deputy; I'm unclear what kind of training they require. However, you seem to have started down the path of the nirvana fallacy with rapid speed, even for you. It's not a perfect solution, but it's certainly one that will filter out the vast majority of instances like this.

**Seaward**

azazel the cat wrote:
Can't say. He's a sheriff's deputy; I'm unclear what kind of training they require. However, you seem to have started down the path of the nirvana fallacy with rapid speed, even for you. It's not a perfect solution, but it's certainly one that will filter out the vast majority of instances like this.

I've seen NSW guys have NDs before. It's something that happens. The more guns you have and the more they're used, the more NDs you see. Cops are pretty notorious for NDs, despite the fact that they get more pistol training than most.

I'm also not sure exactly what kind of safety training you're envisioning beyond the Four Rules, but I'll admit I only have years of professional and personal experience to go on here. People with lots and lots and lots of training still feth up. Frequently, in fact.

**KingCracker**

azazel the cat wrote:
Seaward wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:
Things like this can most definitely be regulated away: simply make safety training a mandatory requirement for anyone to possess a firearm.

Do you think this cop didn't undergo safety training?

Can't say. He's a sheriff's deputy; I'm unclear what kind of training they require. However, you seem to have started down the path of the nirvana fallacy with rapid speed, even for you. It's not a perfect solution, but it's certainly one that will filter out the vast majority of instances like this.

And drivers training works perfectly too yes? No? And people still drown when a life guards on duty? Yes? And youre ALWAYS safe when the ambulance or police show up? NO?! How weird. Everything I just mentioned was training designed to keep others safe, yet still doesnt work every time. The problem with that Azazel, is youre expecting training to weed out the stupid. There is always stupid, no matter the training. And no, that is something you CANT regulate out.

**d-usa**

KingCracker wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:
Seaward wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:
Things like this can most definitely be regulated away: simply make safety training a mandatory requirement for anyone to possess a firearm.

Do you think this cop didn't undergo safety training?

Can't say. He's a sheriff's deputy; I'm unclear what kind of training they require. However, you seem to have started down the path of the nirvana fallacy with rapid speed, even for you. It's not a perfect solution, but it's certainly one that will filter out the vast majority of instances like this.

And drivers training works perfectly too yes? No? And people still drown when a life guards on duty? Yes? And youre ALWAYS safe when the ambulance or police show up? NO?! How weird. Everything I just mentioned was training designed to keep others safe, yet still doesnt work every time. The problem with that Azazel, is youre expecting training to weed out the stupid. There is always stupid, no matter the training. And no, that is something you CANT regulate out.

You can suspend stupid just long enough to pass a test, but that's about it.

**KingCracker**

I remember in HighSchool on some important state testing day, our school actually suspended some of the REALLY dumb kids for some odd reason or another. They say it had nothing to do with the test scores

**Frazzled**

KingCracker wrote:
I remember in HighSchool on some important state testing day, our school actually suspended some of the REALLY dumb kids for some odd reason or another. They say it had nothing to do with the test scores

I remember that. I loved having a day off...oh wait!

**Dreadclaw69**

d-usa wrote:
But people will look at stuff like this and see it as proof that you cannot safely own firearms and that they should all be gotten rid off. But that also means that if we don't want people to think that folks who own guns are stupid, then we need to quit being stupid with our guns (not saying that you are, just speaking in general). Unfortionately somebody had to pay a pretty big price for that lesson.

I might be in favor of some gun legislation, but you cannot legislate responsibility and common sense.

What a waste of a life. The deputy should have been much more careful with his firearm and not allowed a child to get his hands on a loaded pistol. However, saying that guns should be more tightly controlled because of this is like arguing that cars should be more heavily regulated (or just outright replaced with public transport) because someone ran a red light, or drove while intoxicated.

I think its unfair that the majority should suffer because of a tragic incident such as this.

**Alfndrate**

What a sad story :-\

Wasn't there a redneck comedian that said, "Ya can't fix stupid"?

As a new handgun owner, I have that "oooh shiny" sort of feeling towards it. My friends and some DCMs have seen pictures of it, but it's currently in it's case, locked up in my room, just under my bed. It's unloaded, and no one has access to my room. This is just a sad sort of affair that this woman lost her life because her husband was careless enough to leave a loaded gun within reach to anyone that doesn't have enough respect or knowledge for a firearm to know not to point it at someone, or pull the trigger until you're ready to fire at something (preferably a target down range).

**Grey Templar**

d-usa wrote:
KingCracker wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:
Seaward wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:
Things like this can most definitely be regulated away: simply make safety training a mandatory requirement for anyone to possess a firearm.

Do you think this cop didn't undergo safety training?

Can't say. He's a sheriff's deputy; I'm unclear what kind of training they require. However, you seem to have started down the path of the nirvana fallacy with rapid speed, even for you. It's not a perfect solution, but it's certainly one that will filter out the vast majority of instances like this.

And drivers training works perfectly too yes? No? And people still drown when a life guards on duty? Yes? And youre ALWAYS safe when the ambulance or police show up? NO?! How weird. Everything I just mentioned was training designed to keep others safe, yet still doesnt work every time. The problem with that Azazel, is youre expecting training to weed out the stupid. There is always stupid, no matter the training. And no, that is something you CANT regulate out.

You can suspend stupid just long enough to pass a test, but that's about it.

Maybe if gun safety courses had the trainer kill something like a dog* at the end just to drive home the point that "yes, these things kill"

*naturally one thats going to be put down anyway and have it done in a quick and humane fashion.

**azazel the cat**

Grey Templar wrote:Maybe if gun safety courses had the trainer kill something like a dog* at the end just to drive home the point that "yes, these things kill"

*naturally one thats going to be put down anyway and have it done in a quick and humane fashion.

That's one of the craziest things I've seen be honestly suggested on Dakka. Just...wow.

**Grey Templar**

azazel the cat wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:Maybe if gun safety courses had the trainer kill something like a dog* at the end just to drive home the point that "yes, these things kill"

*naturally one thats going to be put down anyway and have it done in a quick and humane fashion.

That's one of the craziest things I've seen be honestly suggested on Dakka. Just...wow.

Just an idea, spit in the wind if you will. People need to realize for themselves that death is real and they need to accept that may things around them can kill, including guns. For many people, death isn't all that present. Sure they may have head knowledge that its real and that it happens but has it truly taken root as a realization? They may not have seen someone or something die, much less die violently.

Its the difference between knowing steak comes from cows and actually seeing a cow get turned into steak.

Just about anyone knows guns are dangerous, but thats way different from seeing the destructive power of a gun first hand. It could be a useful learning tool.

yeah, its a crazy idea. But it just might be useful. Take it with salt as always.

**Dreadclaw69**

azazel the cat wrote:
That's one of the craziest things I've seen be honestly suggested on Dakka. Just...wow.

What about showing the effects of a firearm on one of those ballistic gel dummies, complete with organs and some fake blood. That way they can better see the effects of the weapon.

**Frazzled**

azazel the cat wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:Maybe if gun safety courses had the trainer kill something like a dog* at the end just to drive home the point that "yes, these things kill"

*naturally one thats going to be put down anyway and have it done in a quick and humane fashion.

That's one of the craziest things I've seen be honestly suggested on Dakka. Just...wow.

This is one of the crazy ass times we are in agreement.
Pull out a gun and shoot a dog for no reason: 1) you're now an immediate threat as you're crazy with a gun and I'm probably going to shoot you to protect my life; or 2) you're going to jail. As you're not a million dollar NFL player hopefully for a very very long time. 3) If you survive either, you're guns will go by by.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:
That's one of the craziest things I've seen be honestly suggested on Dakka. Just...wow.

What about showing the effects of a firearm on one of those ballistic gel dummies, complete with organs and some fake blood. That way they can better see the effects of the weapon.

Only if it includes a test- which is better NINJA SAMURAI SWORD OR TURKISH KILLJ, next on ULTIMATE WARRIOR

OT but in the last class I took they had a newsreel of a cops shooting a BG who was trying to kill a kid.

**Grey Templar**

Hence why I said one that was going to be put down anyway. Like terminally ill or something.

Just an idea, not 100% set on it or anything. Don't taze be bro

**Dreadclaw69**

Grey Templar wrote:
Hence why I said one that was going to be put down anyway. Like terminally ill or something.

One of our dogs (over whom there had been a long discussion in the shelter about having her put down because of her disability before we adopted her) let out a very audible groan when I was reading your suggestion. I beleive that may have been a "No" vote

**Frazzled**

Grey Templar wrote:
Hence why I said one that was going to be put down anyway. Like terminally ill or something.

Just an idea, not 100% set on it or anything. Don't taze be bro

TBone's terminally ill. We'll just let this slide with "he had a brain fart and didn't realize what he was saying."

**Grey Templar**

Ok, whatever. Just an idea. Evil cat person coming out of me.

**Frazzled**

Grey Templar wrote:
Ok, whatever. Just an idea. Evil cat person coming out of me.

Ah, now we understand (gets the net) here kitty kitty I've got some nice catnup for you kitty kitty...

**Seaward**

I'm still waiting on some of our all-knowing expert Canadian university students to tell us what exactly their ideal firearms safety course looks like.

**Frazzled**

Seaward wrote:
I'm still waiting on some of our all-knowing expert Canadian university students to tell us what exactly their ideal firearms safety course looks like.

Rest assured it would involve The Royal Mounties and hockey.

**Grey Templar**

I wonder if a Hocky stick is a power Maul, Halberd, or Lance. Could be a combination weapon.

**azazel the cat**

Seaward wrote:I'm still waiting on some of our all-knowing expert Canadian university students to tell us what exactly their ideal firearms safety course looks like.

University graduates. And that really doesn't have anything to do with this conversation, but it was nice of you to let your personal feelings of inadequacy come out to play.

To answer your question: will this suffice?

EDIT: Frazzled; yes it does involve the RCMP. However, you can also obtain the same course from private institutions, like I did.

**Seaward**

azazel the cat wrote:
University graduates. And that really doesn't have anything to do with this conversation, but it was nice of you to let your personal feelings of inadequacy come out to play.

Sorry, I assumed based on your various statements that you were still in.

To answer your question: will this suffice?

So basically the standard concealed carry course in the US.

Yeah, nobody gets through that and does something stupid with a gun. Top notch.