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LValx wrote:
Outside of the 3pt over debacle, I think Tony works fine as an example. His win last year wasn't tarnished by anything more than an odd ruling on Njals power being able to hit Flyers (which was in the FAQ).

So a completely untarnished win. Except for ignoring a rule that would have hurt him had he followed it correctly. Any tournament worthy player has the most up to date FAQs for their codex. He's not a good example.

But I think Redbeard already said it. Most of the people aren't saying that 40k doesn't take any skill at all. You just chose a poor example steeped in controversy.

shrug.

the CENTRAL point here is that he is good, consistently and three points didn't make him good. Forget this tourney. Look at the body of work and understand that people GET this much better than other people! His LISTS quite clearly aren't the reason for his prolific success.

I used him as an example. We are fixating on it rather than the lesson it shows us: If you think all it takes to win is a killer list, I have some beachfront property I want to sell you in South Dakota.

 Jancoran wrote:
His LISTS quite clearly aren't the reason for his prolific success.

Really? How is that clear? Did I miss the proof that his lists are weak (and not just strong lists that most people foolishly underestimate), or are you just assuming that his success isn't due to list building?

(Or cheating, of course.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jancoran wrote:
and three points didn't make him good.

No, but it does bring up the question of where else he might have cheated and just been lucky enough to get away with it.

Oh Peregrine...

It's clear because everyone and their mother has acess to his list and can see what he uses. So this is not news. The list is good, but its not unique and people have seen lists like it many times befoe they ever arrived at the event. So he wasn't SHOCKING anyone with anything he could do with it.

But knowing the beat down is coming doesn't mean you can avoid it. Sometimes you just have to tip your hat.

SUPPOSING he cheated in other places is no more valid than supposing he meant to cheat at the one where he had thrown three points in.

It does NOT look good when you mess up, and being prize ineligible woul have been a very fair fate for the mix up. But even if you did that, his wins were still earned and his totals speak for themself.

List building is still paramount, at the beginning of 6th Ed. I made a list for me and my friend for the Warhammer World Doubles. I thought Large Blasts and Ordnance now work well. Pair of standard LRBT's it is then, nobody will expect that. Flyers now work well, and I found through testing that the Stormtalon although weak was maneuverable and well worth escorting a Scout squad for Linebreaker. Next the 2+ save was now great, so I can ally TAGK to my White Scars and a cheap Inquisitor. Finally some troops are needed so we filled out the remaining points with Platoons and a Defence Line for them.

With not even one game of practice we can 18th out of 120 in a National Tournament. Moral is, good planning and list building will often get you most of the way to a good result.

Focus on whats being said and whats not being said.

whats NOT being said is that lists are unimportant. No one is saying THAT. So that shouldn't even enterinto the discussion.

The thing that IS being said is that tactical acumen is alive and well and thee absolutely ARE those who know it and those who dont.

It is by no coincidence that the same people often are at the pinnacle of the standings regardless of what list they use.

I once had a forum PICK my list for me and I won with it. Lol.

Playing a good list well will get you much further than playing a superb list poorly. The thing about 40K is that I feel a good player with a great list has an advantage over a great player with a good list. Maths are hard to overcome. Dices are even harder :(