Gate of Infinity/Skies of Fury + Rites of Teleportation

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**BlackTalos**

rigeld2 wrote:
BlackTalos wrote:

"If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting) (that is off the board), this range is measured to or from the vehicle’s hull."

I have added the underlined. It does not make the rule incorrect. There is no contradiction if the specified Unit is not on the board, you've made a Note of where it is...

The unit isn't off the board - even in that sentence it says it's embarked. "Where is the unit?" The answer cannot be off the board, the answer must be "It's embarked in that transport." Your addition does significantly change the rule, despite your assurance that it doesn't.

Thought you were referring to this "parenthetical".
As i said, it was probably an error to add it, as the meaning could be proposed without them.

Sorry for not reading that part.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
BlackTalos wrote:
Covered before, but you just changed the subject:
But they both relate to the Deep Strike USR, correct?
One refers to "arriving" using DS, the other refers to "deploy" using DS, correct?

Could i try to push understanding here one step further , and get you to find both of those in the Deep Strike Rules?

Spoiler:

In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve. When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve). Some units must arrive by Deep Strike. They always begin the game in Reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike.

So we know (factually) that to Deep Strike (which is what GoI is telling you to do) you must be in Reserve. Right there. In your quote.

Spoiler:

Arriving by Deep Strike
Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:
• First, place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position where you would like it to arrive, and roll for scatter to determine the model’s final position. If a vehicle scatters when arriving via Deep Strike, do not change its facing – it must continue to face the same direction as it did before you rolled for scatter.
• Next, the unit’s remaining models are arranged around the first one. Models must be placed in base contact with the first model and begin to form a circle around it. When the first circle is complete, a further concentric circle must be placed with each model touching the circle inside it. Each circle must include as many models as will fit.
• Models deploying via Deep Strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.
In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may (etc).
(Copied from BRB-Digital edition)

First, emphasizing with white and grey is the opposite of useful, as I've pointed out before.
Second, the fact that the unit is arriving by Deep Strike does not mean you get to ignore parts of the rule you deem unworthy. You must roll for the arrival. GoI allows you to skip the roll, but not the reason for it.
You can skip a roll To Hit, but you were still shooting a weapon.

What if you were not shooting a weapon, but Vector Striking? Does that mean that the Automatic hit is invalid, because the rules To Hit happen if you were still shooting a weapon?
That is why i am calling it a strawman. Sure, we can prove auto-hits needed a shot first, but this debate would not correctly resolve GoI.

You must roll for arrival, but GoI allows you to skip rolling for arrival. The roll is the only thing tied to Reserves, as proved. Remove the roll, where does the above mention reserves?
Only the first paragraph does so, and we are not including it (because we're only following:
"Arriving by Deep Strike"

rigeld2 wrote:
The sentence is correct Grammatically. What does this prove?

Not if you insist that removing the parenthetical changes the meaning of the sentence (which you said it did).

I was not even paying attention to that tangent, and did not read your "parenthetical" argument as i did not find it relevant, so this defeats nothing, just shows i'm getting tired.

Thanks for not reading my posts! It actually was relevant, which you'd have know if you had, I dunno, actually read things. That you even responded to. So I'm not sure how to take that.

Explained above.

**rigeld2**

BlackTalos wrote:
What if you were not shooting a weapon, but Vector Striking? Does that mean that the Automatic hit is invalid, because the rules To Hit happen if you were still shooting a weapon?

No because there's rules to handle that (under Vector Strike).

That is why i am calling it a strawman. Sure, we can prove auto-hits needed a shot first, but this debate would not correctly resolve GoI.

Then you're using the wrong word. Please don't throw the word "strawman" around incorrectly. I'm taking your exact argument and applying it elsewhere, putting no words in your mouth. Calling it a strawman means I'm putting words in your mouth.

You must roll for arrival, but GoI allows you to skip rolling for arrival. The roll is the only thing tied to Reserves, as proved. Remove the roll, where does the above mention reserves?
Only the first paragraph does so, and we are not including it (because we're only following:
"Arriving by Deep Strike"

The roll is not the only thing tied to Reserves - that's your assertion, but never proven.
You must roll to arrive from Reserves. You don't need to roll. Therefore you arrive. Arrive from where? Context of the rule says "Reserves".
And you've still failed to support your stance that you can ignore an entire paragraph of rules just because you want to.

**nosferatu1001**

Rigeld - no, you have made up an explanation to fit your noTion of what is correct.

The unit is demonstrably off the board. Not jus the models. The whole unit. This is proven.

All you an do, at best, is prove they are off and on the board at the same time. Hitch still defeats your assertion.

My absolute statement was no more absolute than yours, when you claimed that you have proven they are only on the board. Except I proved that was false, and you have not addressed - as in with some real, actual rules, not your assertion about models which is proven false - the rule concerned at all.

They are on and off the table at the same time - all you can prove.

Which still proves there is a place off the table that isn't either reserves or dead.

So now, I will leave it. The rules are clear, for once, they just do not match with what you want them to be.

**greytalon666**

The unit is removed from the board, getting the models off the table. It then goes on to easy Note: the unit is on the transport. Note the unit is on the transport, which is on the table... The unit is on the table!

**nosferatu1001**

greytalon666 wrote:
The unit is removed from the board, getting the models off the table. It then goes on to easy Note: the unit is on the transport. Note the unit is on the transport, which is on the table... The unit is on the table!

No, it does not go on to easy (sic) Note: you made that up. Be precise.

Again, I fully understand that the models have to be physically removed. There is no rejection of that concept. The point that is proven is that explicitly the UNIT is off the table. That is indisputable.

They may ALSO be on the table. I don't really care, because they most certainly are OFF the table.

Edit: didn't realise this was grey. Assume this applies to the thread not grey.

**Johnnytorrance**

Nyghoma wrote:
Gate of infinity uses all the rules for deep strike, ALL. Whether you think it makes sense or doesn't, you can only arrive by reserves. When you are removed from the table with GoI, think of reserves as a temporary time pocket or the Warp.

sorry bud, but youre wrong here.

a unit in reserves is a unit that doesnt come in on turn one and has to roll for permission to enter the board from reserves.

gate of infinity does not do this. its not a reserve unit. its a unit, already on the board, leaving the board and arriving by deep strike on the same turn it left. So, no...it doesnt get RoT. neither does the drop pod theory.

**insaniak**

This one doesn't seem to have achieved anything other than to get people riled, so we can probably chalk it up as another 'talk to your opponent' situation and move on.