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I have read that quote already, thanks!

Orbei wrote:
I have read that quote already, thanks!

But that quote indicates that you can allocate the wound to a drone instead of the target on a roll, which means Savior Protocols works during wound allocation. As we have shown, wound allocation is allocating attacks that have successfully wounded the target, so at that stage they would qualify as wounding the target. What you said about wounds that made a successful to wound roll is true, but it's not the complete story. Any wound of any type that goes through Wound Allocation and is indicated to be similar to other wounds for Wound Allocation would be wounds that have successfully wounded the target. As was pointed out earlier in the thread, this wouldn't cover just mortal wounds but any weapon that you don't have to make a to wound roll for.

It seems dubious at best for people to argue that mortal wounds don't wound the target especially when we have the Wound Allocation rule stating that wounds are attacks that have successfully wounded the target, and you aren't treating a mortal wound like any other wound if you're saying it hasn't wounded the target when allocating it. The entire purpose of Wound Allocation is to allocate wounds that have successfully wounded the target.

New FAQ clarification.

Page 114 – Saviour Protocols
Change this ability to read:
‘When resolving an attack made against a <Sept>
Infantry or <Sept> Battlesuit unit whilst that unit is
within 3" of a friendly <Sept> Drones unit, if the wound
roll is successful, you can roll one D6; on a 2+ that Drones
unit suffers 1 mortal wound and the attack sequence ends.’

MW dont make a wound roll, therefore they cant be intercepted by saviour protocols. I told you so.

Q: Some attacks deal mortal wounds in addition to their normal
damage. When are these mortal wounds allocated?
A: Any mortal wounds inflicted by an attack in addition to
normal damage should be allocated after that attack has
been resolved (note that this may prevent fast dice rolling
when resolving attacks with this ability).

MW are after the attack has been resolved. No interception from saviour protocols possible. I told you so.

True. However, if the MW is tied to an attack, Savior Protocols can now intercept it as they now "end the attack sequence". Meaning they never go to the Damage step.

 flandarz wrote:
True. However, if the MW is tied to an attack, Savior Protocols can now intercept it as they now "end the attack sequence". Meaning they never go to the Damage step.

Mortal wounds are a seperate attack so - doesn't matter for the mortals. They are generated after successful wounds in most cases.

Well, look at the SAG. It's weapon has the ability to "deal a D3 MWs with a successful hit, in addition to any other damage". To me, that ties the MWs directly to the weapon attack, and ability like SP and Grot Shields should be able to "soak" them, simply because they "end the attack sequence". If the attack sequence has ended, that should mean that any "kickers" to that attack become null, yes?

 flandarz wrote:
Well, look at the SAG. It's weapon has the ability to "deal a D3 MWs with a successful hit, in addition to any other damage". To me, that ties the MWs directly to the weapon attack, and ability like SP and Grot Shields should be able to "soak" them, simply because they "end the attack sequence". If the attack sequence has ended, that should mean that any "kickers" to that attack become null, yes?

Q: Some attacks deal mortal wounds in addition to their normal
damage. When are these mortal wounds allocated?
A: Any mortal wounds inflicted by an attack in addition to
normal damage should be allocated after that attack has
been resolved (note that this may prevent fast dice rolling
when resolving attacks with this ability).

Well, I'm glad the FAQ support my position, at least.

 flandarz wrote:
Well, look at the SAG. It's weapon has the ability to "deal a D3 MWs with a successful hit, in addition to any other damage". To me, that ties the MWs directly to the weapon attack, and ability like SP and Grot Shields should be able to "soak" them, simply because they "end the attack sequence". If the attack sequence has ended, that should mean that any "kickers" to that attack become null, yes?

I would say yes if they were triggered during the damage step but in the case of wraith of mars and SAG those are triggered before the savior protocols intercepts the wound. I udnerstand your line of thinking here but we are not instructed anywhere to tie mortal wounds to the attacks that generate them. We are instructed to treat them as single attacks that deal 1 mortal wound. Regardless of the attack sequence ending...you still have an additional 1 damage mortal wound. I believe the FAQ is just telling us when to apply that wound.

Well, the FAQ suggests that MWs generated by an attack are only applied after the attack is resolved. An attack that is "ended" prematurely never reaches "resolution", as attacks are only resolved after the Damage step.

 flandarz wrote:
Well, the FAQ suggests that MWs generated by an attack are only applied after the attack is resolved. An attack that is "ended" prematurely never reaches "resolution", as attacks are only resolved after the Damage step.

To me this only determines order. If they really wanted to nullify the mortal wound...why dont they just say it? It's kind of important. Though I almost want to agree with what you are saying here...It's just kind of baffling to me in 5 seconds of reviewing this FAQ we already have questions..... Why didn't they just site an example of how to play it!?!?!?

Mortal wounds disappear if the savior protocol is successful, answered in Tau FAQ here:

Q: If an attack inflicts mortal wounds on the target, and the
attack is subsequently allocated to a Drones unit as a result
of the Saviour Protocols ability, what happens to those mortal
wounds inflicted?
A: They are cancelled. All damage and mortal wounds
inflicted as the result of that attack is reduced to the
mortal wound inflicted by the Saviour Protocols ability on
that Drones unit.

Well, even better. Nice and clear.

Sorry if this is off post...
But can someone tell me where they are finding todays new FAQs .... The FAQ site isn't updated XD ?

Click "sort A to Z" then click "sort by most recent" to fix it.

Thanks

Jackal444 wrote:
Mortal wounds disappear if the savior protocol is successful, answered in Tau FAQ here:

Q: If an attack inflicts mortal wounds on the target, and the
attack is subsequently allocated to a Drones unit as a result
of the Saviour Protocols ability, what happens to those mortal
wounds inflicted?
A: They are cancelled. All damage and mortal wounds
inflicted as the result of that attack is reduced to the
mortal wound inflicted by the Saviour Protocols ability on
that Drones unit.

This is so gross Converting an attack that can (and should) do multiple wounds if successful to one mortal wound is so OP (sucks that Tau need it to be competitive but that doesn't make it any less un-fun to play against). I hate that they are doubling down on this stupid mechanic (I would love it to convert wounds instead of hits but here we are). Multi-damage weapons already suffer this edition (invluns and variance) this just makes them even worse.

I kinda agree. Riptides are gonna be SO much harder to take down now. They should have taken a page from Grot Shields and did "remove a model" instead of "deal 1 MW". Maybe give the Drones a price drop to reflect their "durability" loss.

bananathug wrote:

Jackal444 wrote:
Mortal wounds disappear if the savior protocol is successful, answered in Tau FAQ here:

Q: If an attack inflicts mortal wounds on the target, and the
attack is subsequently allocated to a Drones unit as a result
of the Saviour Protocols ability, what happens to those mortal
wounds inflicted?
A: They are cancelled. All damage and mortal wounds
inflicted as the result of that attack is reduced to the
mortal wound inflicted by the Saviour Protocols ability on
that Drones unit.

This is so gross Converting an attack that can (and should) do multiple wounds if successful to one mortal wound is so OP (sucks that Tau need it to be competitive but that doesn't make it any less un-fun to play against). I hate that they are doubling down on this stupid mechanic (I would love it to convert wounds instead of hits but here we are). Multi-damage weapons already suffer this edition (invluns and variance) this just makes them even worse.

Yep - most stupid mechanic ever. Its so easy to fix it too. Drones should have to be in LOS to intercept.

Wow. My question thread is still going?

Three take-aways from the Tau FAQ:
1) SP now seems to block Wrath of Mars for sure. This is because a successful SP roll redirects the effects of any rules interaction onto the Drone. See the Tau FAQ about Tremor Shells.
2) AdMech now has to slow roll Wrath to prevent Tau from cherry picking 6's to SP.
3) Tau cannot make FNP rolls on Shield Drones anymore because the attack sequence ends immediately. And yes, FNP is in the attack sequence because P181 says the sequence's last step is to remove models from the board that have 0 wounds. So unless you are going to argue that FNP cannot be done on models with 1 wound left...

I actually think this recent Tau FAQ is a huge stealth nerf to Shield Drones.

Well, you can use FnPs against MWs generated outside of the attack sequence as well. I think it still applies.

I missed that TAU FAQ, that's idiotic. But, keep in mind that Stratagems like flakk missile and hellfire shells can't be intercepted by SP, because it can only happen when the wound roll is successful. Those Stratagems don't make wound rolls.

Right. I assume anything that isn't an attack, or tied to one, is immune to SP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, of course, any source of damage that isn't tied to a Wound roll.

 flandarz wrote:
Right. I assume anything that isn't an attack, or tied to one, is immune to SP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, of course, any source of damage that isn't tied to a Wound roll.

Unless the mortal wounds are in addition to.

It seems that it blocks all the mortal wounds that are in addition from a successful wound roll. But it can't block additional ones from an unsuccessful wound roll.

Huh. I guess you're right. That's awkward. How many weapons can deal MWs without successfully Wounding?

 flandarz wrote:
Well, you can use FnPs against MWs generated outside of the attack sequence as well. I think it still applies.

Right, but this is a case of a mortal wound generated during the attack sequence. When an attack sequence ends, I can only assume that the current rules resolve and no further rules can be applied for this attack sequence, regardless of their source; you can't magically squeeze in FNP before that attack sequence ending. If you're arguing that FNP occurs after the attack sequence ends, well, wouldn't the Drone have been removed from the board by then?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Type40 wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
Right. I assume anything that isn't an attack, or tied to one, is immune to SP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, of course, any source of damage that isn't tied to a Wound roll.

Unless the mortal wounds are in addition to.

It seems that it blocks all the mortal wounds that are in addition from a successful wound roll. But it can't block additional ones from an unsuccessful wound roll.

Correct. SP does not work on additional mortal wounds resulting from unsuccessful wound rolls. Haha.

 flandarz wrote:
Huh. I guess you're right. That's awkward. How many weapons can deal MWs without successfully Wounding?

Haywiire weapons, and any weapons that say "on a roll of X+ this weapon does X additional mortal wounds in addition to it's normal damage"

So if my harlie haywire cannon rolls a 4 against a tough 7, Then the wound roll fails but the mortal wound goes through.
i.e. so rolling a 4 means no drone is stopping it but a 5 or a 6 gets droned XD.

This interpretation is supported via a combination the 3 new drone FAQs and this old FAQ from the BRB

Q: If a weapon such as a rail rifle has an ability that can inflict
a mortal wound on the target in addition to the normal damage,
but the ‘normal damage’ is subsequently saved, does the target
still suffer the mortal wound?
A: Yes. Note that if the ‘normal damage’ was not saved,
the wound would be allocated on the target unit first (and
any resulting damage inflicted) before the mortal wound
was inflicted.

That's so weird. Ok then.

Right. My thinking concerning FNP not working also is based on the other FAQ:

Q: If an attack inflicts a rules effect on a target unit (e.g. Tremor Shells in Codex Space Marines), and that attack is subsequently allocated to a Drones unit as a result of the Saviour Protocols ability, which unit is the rules effect applied to?

A: The Drones unit.

This FAQ implies continuity in the sequence. The attack is not expunged and a separate mortal wound applied to the Drone. The entire attack is moved over to the Drone, but reduced to one mortal wound per this FAQ:

Q: If an attack inflicts mortal wounds on the target, and the attack is subsequently allocated to a Drones unit as a result of the Saviour Protocols ability, what happens to those mortal wounds inflicted?

A: They are cancelled. All damage and mortal wounds inflicted as the result of that attack is reduced to the mortal wound inflicted by the Saviour Protocols ability on that Drones unit.

Can drones get FNP ?