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Made in us
Dipping With Wood Stain




Seattle, WA USA

One of the reasons they switched to digital was so that they could more easily release updates to model profiles, and not have the issue of having to do updated card decks, having boxes with out of date cards, etc.

One could easily make the argument that if they did sufficient playtesting, the frequency of updates wouldn't be required, and thus the quickly outdated hardcopy material wouldn't be such a burden. In fact, I am making that argument.

One of the things that really turned me off was the constant updates due to the CID program, and generally bending to listen to the biggest complainers (who happen to be mostly SR players, you know, the "Hard Core!" folks), which had, in my opinion, a pretty negative impact on the overall health of the game. Warmachine/Hordes were already relatively complex games with respect to the wide number of various special rules around, and had a big, big learning curve. Constant churn on updating rules makes that even worse: you must make sure you keep up to date on all the FAQ/Errata and any updates they put out via the CID. It's too much for most people. And that's a major barrier for more adoption.

Having to get all the digital stuff is yet another barrier. You either have to download and print stuff at home, or have a reasonably good smart phone or tablet with you when you want to play. Not everyone has that, or, more importantly, wants that. And yeah, yeah, "it's the 21st century, everyone has a smartphone" is something I hear people say in response to that, but even if the majority do, tack on the data charges or even network availability, and it's still a big pain the the buttocks in comparison to just having the cards with the info you need so you can roll dice and push around toy soldiers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/20 00:16:09


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Overread wrote:One issue with online groups is that you can more easily retain a large portion of the population who are not engaging with the hobby any more.
I don't know that this is a bad thing. Perhaps the reason they are engaging and not playing is because there is something about the game they are not enjoying, but would come back if this thing was changed. For instance, I haven't played Warmachine since Mk2 - and I admit to being quite negative about it (and the WMH community) when I quit - but I still continued with discussions about it long after I stopped... and now I'm back because my two main complaints about the game are alleviated.

For the record, the two complaints were the crappy model quality (MonPoc's models are great, so I'm on board with metal and resin models) and the community (it is lighter than it was, but I definitely get the impression that the players left are less steamroller-only). My third major complaint is that the game looks terrible on the table, so I'd like to advocate for more terrain, painted models, neoprene mats, and less tokens.

Ghool wrote:My main complaint is that everything needed to actually play the game is digital.
You are preaching to the choir. I love video games, but I come to miniature gaming to explicitly not have video games. I don't want to have to update apps or download patches. I don't want to have an update break something for a week, or a formatting error that only seems to affect my iPad. Give me something physical that I can hold, where I don't have to deal with the inconvenience of modern computing.

Monkeysloth wrote:The problem is all of those these are a waste in physically form.
Absolutely not. My physical books and magazines are treasures. My binders full of cards are treasures. Just like all my miniatures are treasures. When I picked up a bunch of WMH starters recently, I also got all the Forces books (on clearance) - completely worthless for gaming, since they are universally out of date, but I love reading the fluff and looking at pictures of the models. I wish we got stuff like that for MonPoc.

Warmachine used to be able to sustain No Quarter and book releases just fine. It's just that the Warmachine audience shrunk after the release of Mk3 and PP likely decided to prioritize quick balance turnaround, which means that published stats immediately became outdated. Plus, PP did just release Oblivion.
   
Made in us
Second Story Man




Astonished of Heck

Ghool wrote:My main complaint is that everything needed to actually play the game is digital.
The only physical component I can buy anymore are models.

Unfortunately, the books and magazine weren't selling well enough to even consider it a loss leader. No Quarter even went quarterly to defray costs and it wasn't enough. So the faults there are with the community, not with the company.

As for being digital, I can say the same thing that everything needed for playing 40K and AoS is digital as well. At least you aren't required to print out a whole book with PP (I admit a ", yet" should be added there). Both the Oblivion set and each starter set comes with the rules, and you can print out the erratas and cards just like one will with 40K.

Valander wrote:Having to get all the digital stuff is yet another barrier. You either have to download and print stuff at home, or have a reasonably good smart phone or tablet with you when you want to play.

I just run down to FedEx Office/Kinko's to print out the cards I want. They even have a handy cutter you can use to get them nice and clean. Then I just fold them around the old cards and stick them in to a card protector I already am using, and I'm good to go. Took me all of 15 minutes, including logging in to one of their computers, downloading the file, and then going to one of the copiers. That was getting cards for Alexia1, Boomer1, Galleon, Cryx Starter, and Legion Starter which I had acquired at the local gamer garage sale.

Of course, I have a little knowledge on how to do that, having spent 8 years setting up their store's systems.

Sqorgar wrote:Warmachine used to be able to sustain No Quarter and book releases just fine. It's just that the Warmachine audience shrunk after the release of Mk3 and PP likely decided to prioritize quick balance turnaround, which means that published stats immediately became outdated. Plus, PP did just release Oblivion.

Numbers for No Quarter were already low when Mk 3 hit. They went Quarterly with No Quarter all too soon after Mk3's launch for it to be just Mk3's drop.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Charistoph wrote:
Numbers for No Quarter were already low when Mk 3 hit. They went Quarterly with No Quarter all too soon after Mk3's launch for it to be just Mk3's drop.
Wasn't really there for the launch of Mk3, so I didn't know the timeline. There's probably a lot of reasons to drop the magazine beyond low numbers. It's probably difficult to justify in the face of daily website article updates, and PP's output probably couldn't support a bi-monthly magazine anyway.

I've noticed with MonPoc and Riot Quest that PP no longer even shows painted new releases in previews or even on retail packaging. It's probably difficult to run a magazine when PP no longer bothers to paint their own models...
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Sqorgar wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
This has definitely been the worst aspect about MK3. I mean, the edition was released 4 years ago and most of the complaints you hear to this day are stuff from the first 6 months or so that have long since been resolved.
Other than balance, what other complaints have there been with Mk3?


Note - these are not all necessarily my issues - these would be the most frequently mentioned things I've seen. Some small, some large.

From a game/hobby POV?

Getting rid of the books (including skull island, and pp digital - I lost all my back catalogue of nq)
Balance /change issues.
Too much bloat in the game.
Getting rid of the press gangers.
Getting rid of the forums.
Getting rid of no quarter.
Getting rid of cards - bigger digital requirements.
CID issues - too much chaos from changes, too little, changes in the wrong places etc.
Lack of support for other projects e.g. Company of iron etc

Price of models is ridiculous. (5 everblight chosen for a hundred quid? I'll take gw, thanks!)I've been told a competitive infernals army can cost nearly a grande.

Also, and probsbly cruciallyThey implemented a lot of retailer-hostile decisions in terms of stock and support that really turned people's backs up. There was also the black anchor fiasco where pp sell their own high margin things and don't loop in retailers.To the point where a lot of retailers. simply got fed up with them and stopped stocking. For a company without a retail arm, and relied on third parties this was a self inflicted kneecapping.


greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I hear what some people are saying about wanting less digital elements of their hobby. I have a friend who is the same. However, with love, that is massively out of step with the general trend and what most of the community want.

Physical cards and to a certain extent, rule books are redundant in a game and age where most games are now operating under a “living rules” method. Rules, stats and units get adjusted all the time so as soon as a card deck can be printed, its out of date and largely useless. This is why many stores got stuck with Mk3 card decks shortly after launch when PP had to make adjustments. It’s a dead product. One of my mates purchased a Khador deck only to have all the point values and other things changed almost as soon as he purchased it. That why the solution and future is accompanying apps print at home online card decks.

People forget that when PP launched WarRoom back in the day, it may have been one of, if not the first wargame to have such a app. The were ahead of the curve or if not, close to the front in that regards.

The issue with WarRoom, much like many things with PP, its hasn’t evolved and moved beyond its initial model. WarRoom now is overpriced and often hit by bugs and most other wargames have superior app that are often free. PP has not moved with the times. If War Room were free and worked as well as others, players would be less reluctant to use it.

Price of models is ridiculous. (5 everblight chosen for a hundred quid? I'll take gw, thanks!)I've been told a competitive infernals army can cost nearly a grande.


This remains one of my huge issues with the game and why im not investing all that much if not at all in new models right now. The game costs for many of the new WM/H units is ridiculous. To build on you example I believe that one 5 model unit of Infernal Howlers is over £85. For 5 medium based models that are not even that detailed. Its stupid. Iv got most of my Trollbloods from online shop sales, ebay/FB sellers or at one or two UK conventions where stores were selling off PP as very low prices. PP really need to rethink their pricing

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/20 10:50:16


 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man




Astonished of Heck

 Sqorgar wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
Numbers for No Quarter were already low when Mk 3 hit. They went Quarterly with No Quarter all too soon after Mk3's launch for it to be just Mk3's drop.
Wasn't really there for the launch of Mk3, so I didn't know the timeline. There's probably a lot of reasons to drop the magazine beyond low numbers. It's probably difficult to justify in the face of daily website article updates, and PP's output probably couldn't support a bi-monthly magazine anyway.

Whatever your theories may accuse them of, the reasons given for No Quarter's reduction and stoppage was due to lack of interest. Translated that means that not enough people were buying the periodical, either from them or the stores which bought their product. While I can't address the world, much less the nation, I noticed that usually only one person would buy the periodical locally and everyone in the group used that.

In the end, I get people accusing PP of not providing sufficient content outside of the competitive market, even though almost all that content was in the No Quarter periodical. That's like accusing a fast food join of not providing breakfast, but you never go there before 2pm, yet they open at 6am.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sunno wrote:

Price of models is ridiculous. (5 everblight chosen for a hundred quid? I'll take gw, thanks!)I've been told a competitive infernals army can cost nearly a grande.


This remains one of my huge issues with the game and why im not investing all that much if not at all in new models right now. The game costs for many of the new WM/H units is ridiculous. To build on you example I believe that one 5 model unit of Infernal Howlers is over £85. For 5 medium based models that are not even that detailed. Its stupid. Iv got most of my Trollbloods from online shop sales, ebay/FB sellers or at one or two UK conventions where stores were selling off PP as very low prices. PP really need to rethink their pricing


Something that's hasn't really been brought up is how much the MSRP enforcement hurt them. I know some other publishers were doing this at the same time, Asmodee for example, but it really did appear to hurt Privateer more then anyone else. Discount Game inc having the ability to sell PP stuff cheaper then they're supposed to (if you send them an email first) is I sign, I believe, that Privateer realizes that but don't want to walk it back for fear that they might actually burn whatever bridges with game stores they have left.

Charistoph wrote:
 Sqorgar wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
Numbers for No Quarter were already low when Mk 3 hit. They went Quarterly with No Quarter all too soon after Mk3's launch for it to be just Mk3's drop.
Wasn't really there for the launch of Mk3, so I didn't know the timeline. There's probably a lot of reasons to drop the magazine beyond low numbers. It's probably difficult to justify in the face of daily website article updates, and PP's output probably couldn't support a bi-monthly magazine anyway.

Whatever your theories may accuse them of, the reasons given for No Quarter's reduction and stoppage was due to lack of interest. Translated that means that not enough people were buying the periodical, either from them or the stores which bought their product. While I can't address the world, much less the nation, I noticed that usually only one person would buy the periodical locally and everyone in the group used that.

In the end, I get people accusing PP of not providing sufficient content outside of the competitive market, even though almost all that content was in the No Quarter periodical. That's like accusing a fast food join of not providing breakfast, but you never go there before 2pm, yet they open at 6am.


I think the editor of NQ also left around this time which caused some issues with PP being able to put it out as often. I know the Skull Island Expedition editor left before MK3 and they handed the rains of that to the guy over NQ but he had no interest in doing any more books (even though the sales were pretty decent) nor did he really know how to work with authors based off of what I've been told by people that use to write for them. Then I thought I heard he left as well but I could be mistaken.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/21 01:15:47


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Monkeysloth wrote:

I think the editor of NQ also left around this time which caused some issues with PP being able to put it out as often. I know the Skull Island Expedition editor left before MK3 and they handed the rains of that to the guy over NQ but he had no interest in doing any more books (even though the sales were pretty decent) nor did he really know how to work with authors based off of what I've been told by people that use to write for them. Then I thought I heard he left as well but I could be mistaken.


This would not surprise me in the slightest.

Afaik, didn't pp haemorrhage most of their staff over the last few years as well? They lost most of the big development names and for me, when Seacat left, that felt like a bit of a death knell. He was the iron kingdoms. I heard they're down to something like thirty employees from a peak of a hundred. That kind of rapid turnover in staff has consequences, especially with loss of experience and knowledge.

greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Deadnight wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:

I think the editor of NQ also left around this time which caused some issues with PP being able to put it out as often. I know the Skull Island Expedition editor left before MK3 and they handed the rains of that to the guy over NQ but he had no interest in doing any more books (even though the sales were pretty decent) nor did he really know how to work with authors based off of what I've been told by people that use to write for them. Then I thought I heard he left as well but I could be mistaken.


This would not surprise me in the slightest.

Afaik, didn't pp haemorrhage most of their staff over the last few years as well? They lost most of the big development names and for me, when Seacat left, that felt like a bit of a death knell. He was the iron kingdoms. I heard they're down to something like thirty employees from a peak of a hundred. That kind of rapid turnover in staff has consequences, especially with loss of experience and knowledge.


They did loose a lot of people recently but the stuff I mentioned before were years before that -- like when PP was going pretty strong.

A chunk that left went to go work on the Marvel Game that FFG/Atomic Mass put out. Seacat left to go work on getting books published, but stull does contract work for PP -- which I believe some of the others that left do as well like Matt Goetz (SP?). It's hard to tell if the reason everyone left was because of financial issues with PP, direction the company was going they disagreed with or other opportunities that arose all around the same time. Whatever it is most that did leave seam to still seam to have a good relationship with PP.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Contractual work is pretty common even GW uses contracts for some design jobs. PP might have grown fat on employees as they grew, only to find that their output wasn't actually turning out to be great enough to warrant full time creative staff. Things slowed down so instead of retaining staff that would bleed them dry whilst also being left with too little work; they might have simply shifted back toward short term contract work.

Releasing staff would help lower their continual overheads. Granted hiring contract staff can end up costing more in the long run, but it also means that PP can balance their needs against investment. If they hit if off well they can hire in more staff; if things slow up again and they have to shift directions once more, they can lower demands on certain titles for new creative content without leaving themselves with long term staff wages to damage their overall financial position.


Letting staff go is often a sign of the market and company income contracting, however it doesn't have to be a bad thing; done at the right time it can save a company from falling apart. Letting them ride out rougher times and prepare to rebuild for a better times.

   
Made in us
Hungry Ghoul




 Overread wrote:
Contractual work is pretty common even GW uses contracts for some design jobs. PP might have grown fat on employees as they grew, only to find that their output wasn't actually turning out to be great enough to warrant full time creative staff. Things slowed down so instead of retaining staff that would bleed them dry whilst also being left with too little work; they might have simply shifted back toward short term contract work.

Releasing staff would help lower their continual overheads. Granted hiring contract staff can end up costing more in the long run, but it also means that PP can balance their needs against investment. If they hit if off well they can hire in more staff; if things slow up again and they have to shift directions once more, they can lower demands on certain titles for new creative content without leaving themselves with long term staff wages to damage their overall financial position.


Letting staff go is often a sign of the market and company income contracting, however it doesn't have to be a bad thing; done at the right time it can save a company from falling apart. Letting them ride out rougher times and prepare to rebuild for a better times.


With as much amazing talent thats out there for sculpting and painting, I'm really surprised that companies still try to keep on hand sculptors and painters. I know there are obvious advantages to this, but the cost savings has to be real.

I also agree on the reduction in the workforce. People often view it as a sign of the end times, but it really isn't. Companies are a lot like people, they grow, experience financial gain, and then they tend to get a little too much fat around the belly line. When times come where they have to then cut back on all of the red meat and go to a chicken-based diet, it's actually healthier for them, even if they don't like it (And no, this has nothing to do with a 188 overall cholesterol level in my analogy ). (Keep in mind, I'm not saying its a good thing for employees, its not, but it is for the company).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Seabass wrote:
With as much amazing talent thats out there for sculpting and painting, I'm really surprised that companies still try to keep on hand sculptors and painters. I know there are obvious advantages to this, but the cost savings has to be real.
I think PP does use contract sculptors. Or at least, I remember one posting about working on MonPoc over on BGG around when it launched.

I also agree on the reduction in the workforce. People often view it as a sign of the end times, but it really isn't.
I sort of feel like PP's was a direct result of Games Workshop's failure. This kind of caused Warmachine's popularity to be artificially inflated, and unsustainable in a market with actual competition. I think X-Wing was really the first challenger to Warmachine, and I remember losing several players to it during Mk2.

I mean, PP did a lot of anti-consumer stuff which pissed off a bunch of players. And Mk3 wasn't a great launch (though I've seen worse). PP got screwed hard on the original Monsterpocalypse. I'm not saying that PP is blameless. I'm just not sure Warmachine would've gotten as popular as it did if there were real alternatives. I feel like it is more niche than it appears - or maybe the miniature gaming market has grown broader and more mainstream (and WMH failed to grow with it). To be fair, some of that growth can be directly attributable to Warmachine.

I feel like PP is in a better place with multiple tentpole product lines, built on fewer, more unique miniatures. I mean, $90 for a unit of 10 metal miniatures is on the extreme side. Riot Quest's and MonPoc's miniatures are a bit on the expensive side too, but they come with unique gameplay mechanics that can greatly change the game - and you don't need many of them. Warcaster is looking similar. PP's metal and resin can be created on demand, and sold at profit at lower numbers, so PP can make more money by releasing less, and the customers can feel like they get more with less as well.

I think PP is also letting the plastic models slip into obscurity. I know they aren't remaking out of print starter sets, and there's a bunch of models using the old crappy plastic that probably will need to be remade using their current production pipeline. How much of Warmachine's back catalogue is outsourced plastic models, and how badly hurt would Warmachine be without them?
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





I think only outsourced plastics are the HIPs warjacks and engines and the battleboxes. The restic that you, and others, dislike was in house as it's just spin cast resin like Mantic uses.
   
Made in ca
Painting Within the Lines






 Monkeysloth wrote:
I think only outsourced plastics are the HIPs warjacks and engines and the battleboxes. The restic that you, and others, dislike was in house as it's just spin cast resin like Mantic uses.


No, not at all.
All PP plastics were outsourced to Chinese manufacturing.
PP has not made any plastic in house now, or ever. That’s why there were such massive delays.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 Monkeysloth wrote:
The restic that you, and others, dislike...
You make that sound like folks exist that don't dislike it...
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Ghool wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I think only outsourced plastics are the HIPs warjacks and engines and the battleboxes. The restic that you, and others, dislike was in house as it's just spin cast resin like Mantic uses.


No, not at all.
All PP plastics were outsourced to Chinese manufacturing.
PP has not made any plastic in house now, or ever. That’s why there were such massive delays.


But restic isn't plastic so I'm confused to what else was as the stuff from them I have is clearly similar mantic's. maybe there's another set of material they used I'm not aware of, I have lots of PP stuff but I'm not an regular purchaser. The most recent thing I've assembled is Grymkin Hollowmen and that, to me, is clearly a spin cast resin.

 Sqorgar wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
The restic that you, and others, dislike...
You make that sound like folks exist that don't dislike it...


Me. I have had bad restic but I haven't had a bad one from Privateer but I only have a few kits I've assembled I'm fine with. I also like PVC minis and not the biggest fan of metal so there you go.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/22 17:07:42


 
   
Made in us
Dipping With Wood Stain




Seattle, WA USA

PP has had 4 materials for models. White metal, which was/is done in house. Polyurethane resin ("regular resin") also done in house. The PVC based "restic" stuff, which was all done from outside in China (probably the same facility that did CMON's stuff, but unconfirmed). Confirmed "Made in China" on one of the Battle Boxes I just grabbed off my shelf that has been gathering dust. And more recently HIPS for a few kits I believe, likely also from China but I don't have any to confirm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/22 22:44:51


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wow. You're right. I dug up one of the boxes and it clearly says produced in china. That's pretty surprising as generally the reason to use restic is it can be produced similar to metal minis.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

It might be at the time they just didn't have any experience in-house with it or that their in-house machines were already running at heavy capacity so outsourcing was an option they chose to try and increase production without large costs in new machines and perhaps even new factory space to put those machines in.

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Thread over on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warmachine/comments/he0vds/warmachine_discontinued/

TLDR: Basically a new player in Canada can't find anything to buy. Had at least one gamestore tell him PP discontinued Warmachine. Not a lot off good info but a bit of discussion on how hard it is to start up due to poor availability of things a new player would want.
   
Made in us
Second Story Man




Astonished of Heck

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Thread over on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warmachine/comments/he0vds/warmachine_discontinued/

TLDR: Basically a new player in Canada can't find anything to buy. Had at least one gamestore tell him PP discontinued Warmachine. Not a lot off good info but a bit of discussion on how hard it is to start up due to poor availability of things a new player would want.

My nearest LGS went from having half their back wall being Warmachine, down to two sections, down to an end cap. Problem was a lack of purchasing interest.

My LGS before I moved across town, however, still kept up a lot of stuff, and even expanded a little here and there. But part of it may be that he knows some of the staff, having played Warhammer with them way back when. Even with that, he did a clearance sale.

Right now WMH just isn't having a lot of strong interest and there is a glut of second-hand on the market right now, so only new stuff sells (if even that). It seems the games with the most interest have a much smaller model count are leading the fore, if it's not the much simplified 40K franchise. Then when you have something like Star Wars coming along and selling kits with the same number of models for less, it is hard to get an interest going.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It seems that reddit thread is mostly about the plastic models disappearing (which we talked about here). PP is doing their Lock and Load keynote soon. I'd wait until after that before declaring WMH discontinued. I'm pretty sure I heard Hungerford say that more WMH stuff was coming at the end of 2020.

My out of left field prediction? Mk3.5 relaunch in 2021. Not new rules (they wouldn't have made the new digest rulebook for just Oblivion), but new starter sets in a post-Infernals timeline, which will cull a bunch of models from the lineup.
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

They need to inject some new life into Warmachine/hordes. That said I can see it as a struggle until they can get some kind of outreach program to help GROW their market rather than relying heavily on the existing.

   
Made in ca
Painting Within the Lines






This whole thread I’ve been stating that PP doesn’t really distribute outside the US anymore. And buying direct is crazy shipping costs to get stuff to Canada.
It’s the main reason I’ve lost interest in their games - availability and ridiculous prices.
   
Made in us
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Longtime Dakkanaut





You think they could at least get stuff to canada. It's like a 2 hour drive from their warehouse.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Ghool wrote:
This whole thread I’ve been stating that PP doesn’t really distribute outside the US anymore. And buying direct is crazy shipping costs to get stuff to Canada.
It’s the main reason I’ve lost interest in their games - availability and ridiculous prices.


They do, but stores now need to manage their relationship directly with PP. As far as I know there is really only 1 store in the UK that has formed a direct relationship with PP. all the rest either use the normal distribution channels which makes it really hard to get product and orders turn up really slowly.

If I buy new, the I get my WM/H from this one store. Talking to other major stores, it seems that they feel that PP is too hard to work with, doesn't sell enough for them to keep on the shelves and based on many stores getting burnt at the start of Mk3, all the good will and desire to build bridges with the company is totally gone.

So you can get PP products outside the US if your a store, but you have to want to set up and manage that link outside of the normal 1 or 2 large importers and distributors so that is an overhead. Most stores seems to have taken the view that its not worth it and so dont.

But if you want stuff in the UK I can recommend Patriot Games based in Leeds. But the fact that it took me years to find this out and its like super secret information known only to those within the competitive core of the UK Comp Scene is also part of the issue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/24 08:13:11


 
   
Made in us
Uhlan




 RiTides wrote:
Hey guys,

So this occurred to me, after mulling over what wasn't gelling with me about joining in with the local group to start up playing Hordes again. And it's that I think they really just do need to re-boot. Mk3 clearly lost a ton of fans, but there's a chance to win those same fans back with a new edition, and maybe also make an easier way for folks to start.

The reason this hit me, too, was thinking about Warcaster. Obviously, starting a new game gets it out from some of the problems of the old (namely, no design space left for new releases!). But in the end, it would end up in the very same place, imo. And to be completely honest, I've got a really awesome Hordes minions army converted and painted, and would like to use at least part of it!

What do you think, is there any chance of a Mk4 on the horizon? What would it take to get folks to try out Warmachine and Hordes?

Cheers for any thoughts / ideas



After playing Monsterpocalypse and see Warcaster rules shape up, I think Warmachine in Mk4 need to start emulating those in house IP systems. It puts alot of the math behind the dice instead of in front of them and would make the game more accessible to people. Right now Mk 1-3 use a modified d20 system and I think most of the new generation don't have the patience for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sunno wrote:
 Ghool wrote:
This whole thread I’ve been stating that PP doesn’t really distribute outside the US anymore. And buying direct is crazy shipping costs to get stuff to Canada.
It’s the main reason I’ve lost interest in their games - availability and ridiculous prices.


They do, but stores now need to manage their relationship directly with PP. As far as I know there is really only 1 store in the UK that has formed a direct relationship with PP. all the rest either use the normal distribution channels which makes it really hard to get product and orders turn up really slowly.

If I buy new, the I get my WM/H from this one store. Talking to other major stores, it seems that they feel that PP is too hard to work with, doesn't sell enough for them to keep on the shelves and based on many stores getting burnt at the start of Mk3, all the good will and desire to build bridges with the company is totally gone.

So you can get PP products outside the US if your a store, but you have to want to set up and manage that link outside of the normal 1 or 2 large importers and distributors so that is an overhead. Most stores seems to have taken the view that its not worth it and so dont.

But if you want stuff in the UK I can recommend Patriot Games based in Leeds. But the fact that it took me years to find this out and its like super secret information known only to those within the competitive core of the UK Comp Scene is also part of the issue.


After seeing DC seperate from Diamond and I would be surprised if we see the same thing with Alliance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/24 16:32:18


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sqorgar wrote:It seems that reddit thread is mostly about the plastic models disappearing (which we talked about here). PP is doing their Lock and Load keynote soon. I'd wait until after that before declaring WMH discontinued. I'm pretty sure I heard Hungerford say that more WMH stuff was coming at the end of 2020.

My out of left field prediction? Mk3.5 relaunch in 2021. Not new rules (they wouldn't have made the new digest rulebook for just Oblivion), but new starter sets in a post-Infernals timeline, which will cull a bunch of models from the lineup.


This wouldn't surprise me at all as only the starters are missing. Makes since for a revamped set. They could easily call it MK4 too as with CID and the Oblivion rules at lot of the rule complaints from early MK3 are gone.


On another note, since we're talking about distribution. What happened with that new Executive they announced a few years ago that was going to head up UK/EU distribution and such for PP? I don't think I've heard a single thing about that since the announcement and clearly, based off of comments, they're not doing a very good job,
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I would imagine Brexit shot those plans in the foot - plus the continual delays of it likely kept them from sorting out the final plans because you can't finalise your plans when something that major is going to happen at "some point" but no one knows what will actaully happen till it happens.

   
 
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